I just want to pass on a little something that is considered board etiquitte on a lot of sites. I am not saying it is a rule. I am just making a suggestion and feel free to discuss as long as it doesn't lead to a flame war.

From time to time someone will post a thread saying "Hey look at this rare piece! I wonder how much it will go for?"

This is called auction outing.

Some people hate it when people do this because it generally drives the price up. Some boards actually frown upon the practice.

I know anyone can find the auction on eBay but not everyone does. Someone could have been watching the auction and now cannot get it for the deal they could have.

Like I said - discuss.

Is auction outing a bad thing? Is it fair game?

Does it help the community or not?

Tough call...

On one hand its a public auction, its out there for everyone to see so why not post it and show people?

On the other hand someone could have been watching it for 6 days in hopes they get it for cheaper and all of a sudden see it on YoJoe and the price doubles.

The former helps the seller, who could be a member of the boards, while the latter helps the buyer, who is also a member of the boards.

On the flip side we have a auctions forum, so if a seller who uses the board doesn't advertise and use the means available then why should we give him a break about it?

Personally, I hate it when it happens, I've seen some great deals dissapear real fast. If you want to find deals on ebay then do the legwork, get out there and look. If you do see a deal but can't afford it then don't spoil it for everyone else who can afford it may be hoping for that same deal.

I think it was a couple of months ago when some one "auction outed" themself. I cant remember the exact details, but some one posted an auction and asked something to the effect "Is this a good deal?" or "should I bid on this" I chuckled to myself thinking it was a good deal until it was posted!

I know that I would not like it if someone outed an auction that I was watching. But I have a feeling that this could go the same direction as outbidding a fellow member - many dont care, about as many do!

I think overall ebay auction outing shouldn't be alowed (I won't say anything about any other auction sites... not sure if there are any worth noting).

Collectors already hit ebay if they are in the market for stuff. Make them do their own work... allow them to continue getting great deals.

Sellers, sometimes do register new accounts here just to out an auction of theirs on the toys forum... despite the forum that was created specificly for this type of activity which the main collectors would hit if they were in the market for stuff.

If someone want's to know if some auction is a good deal... it's easy enough to just ask without linking to the auction before hand. If someone needs to know what the items in an auction are they can save the images locally and attatch them to a post on the boards without giving away the actual auctions information.

So, IMO, yes, auction outing should be controlled. It's one thing to talk about auctions after they are over. I think most people like to brag about what great deals they got ;) . If the toy forum can be kept free of the active auctions IMO it would do more good for the community and collectors than the harm it does of bring in more sellers to the main toys forum to post their own auctions as innocent "outings".

That's my 5˘ anyway.

i am not a fan of auction outing.

imho, if you want to discuss a rare item, wait until the auction is over.

if a seller wants the benefit of his item being noticed by yojoers, the seller should post a link to his auction....

just my 2 cents

i am not a fan of auction outing.

imho, if you want to discuss a rare item, wait until the auction is over.

if a seller wants the benefit of his item being noticed by yojoers, the seller should post a link to his auction....

just my 2 cents
I couldn't have said it any better myself.

Besides, waiting til the auction is over is fun to say "lookie what I found!" better than "look what I found and aint getting cuz I let it slip on here before it ended"

Auction outing doesn't bother me in the slightest.

I'd rather hear about an auction I can bid on and win instead of reading some 'nah nah nah..look what I got' post after the fact.

There's enough out there for everyone guys, lets share the wealth.

I think auction outing is something that hurts bidders & helps sellers. I sell on ebay way more than I buy, but I still think outing has no place here on YoJoe. Even though it has the potential to help my own auctions I think it is wrong.

I like to get good deals on things, but if everything rare ends up in the public eye here that chance is diminished greatly.

Chalk me up as being AGAINST auction outing on Yojoe.

It is truely poor messageboard behaviour, IMO. Why? Because though Ebay reaches thousands of people, specific auctions may not. We are a great community here on Yojoe, full of people who are constantly helping each other out (with contacts, items, parts, etc,etc). You never know which of your fellow collectors are watching an auction, in hopes of picking the item up. Posting the auction really can mess this up big time.

The great appeal of Ebay is finding something unique at a great price. It's those "hidden" auctions that usually reveal great finds! It's really the draw of Ebay.

It would be great to know that at least on Yojoe's messageboard, you won't have to fear that the auction you are looking at will not be "exposed" to other collectors. It's already a big "no no" to do this on the vintage board at Rebelscum.

Now, of course it should still be perfectly fine for member who is the seller to post a link to his/her auction. But, this should be in the appropriate Auction or For Sale section. Or...maybe even in the signature area of their posts. But, definitely not in any of the other areas.

Also, I'm totally for the posting of auctions...AFTER they are complete. If the true motivation of the post is to discuss the item, then discussing it after the close is fine. If the point of the post is to simply "hey look at this", or "what do you thinG this will reach"...then absolutely not.

I wouldn't mind a Yojoe rule/recommendation not allowing auction outing.

-Peter

I've actually been one to slip up at least once to out an auction.
I understand the arguments against it; I just slipped on that particular
occasion. (Whether Thorn got the Flagg through my post or despite it, I'll never know)

Barring that one post, I will not be outing any auctions publicly on the forum.

Most of the time these days, if I know a particular user here
is looking for something, I'll PM them to give them a heads up on an auction that may be about to end or may have a low BIN. If I know they need it,
and they haven't bid on it by that time, chances are they haven't seen it.

Maybe it's naive (I've been called worse) but I put just a little stock in the whole "what goes around..." theory. Is it wrong to help out someone who's been actively looking for something? Possibly.

If I see someone else from the board (by now, I've gotten most of your eBay IDs down) bidding on it, I won't forward it to someone else. And you'll never know I did it. Or didn't do it, as the case may be.

In fairness, with very few exceptions, there is a pretty good camaraderie on this board especially between frequent trading partners. I wouldn't be surprised if I'm not the only one PMing other YoJoers about stuff they need.

But again, I see your points about public posting and won't be continuing that practice.

Peace,
Pat

i am not a fan of auction outing.

imho, if you want to discuss a rare item, wait until the auction is over.

if a seller wants the benefit of his item being noticed by yojoers, the seller should post a link to his auction....

just my 2 cents

100% agree. What really kills me are the people that post about "rare" items (I put rare in quotes because there's only so much I genuinely consider rare and most of what's on ebay doesn't qualify. :) Just wanted to explain that.) with no intention of bidding whatsoever. If that's the case let the auction end or talk about the item without blowing it up and broadcasting it all over the net. Yeah ebay is a very public entity with public auctions, but there's still plenty that slips under the radar.

In most cases, not a big fan of it, but exceptions do slip in there occasionally.

-auctions with multiple numbers of the same item for sale (like dmooretoys' post here (http://forums.yojoe.com/showthread.php?t=13392))

-auctions that contain the 'ultimate' in rare merchandise, like a PDD or a Ninja Commando set that everyone should get a chance to look at and verify

So, yes and no.

I agree on the latter example, stuff like that is going to go high.

What bothers me is say a big lot of figures and half buried in the picture I see a Complete Heavy Metal and have it watched hoping no one else see's it and then with 2 hours left is shows up on the Board. I've seen those sort of hidden gems show up before.

In most cases, not a big fan of it, but exceptions do slip in there occasionally.

-auctions with multiple numbers of the same item for sale (like dmooretoys' post here (http://forums.yojoe.com/showthread.php?t=13392))

-auctions that contain the 'ultimate' in rare merchandise, like a PDD or a Ninja Commando set that everyone should get a chance to look at and verify

So, yes and no.

I agree with that 100%. Most of the times I don't care. But if there is something really sweet, I gotta see it :-)

allow, people should be able to discuss auctions, help others to see those, because they are looking for it for so long etc etc.
People who really want it should pay more bucks then.
If no one finds that auction then you've got luck.
If this won't be allowed anymore, then what about people who have their own auctions?
Don't mention it anymore? Because I don't see a big difference in telling that you put your own item on ebay or telling that someone else is putting that rare item on ebay.

What bothers me is say a big lot of figures and half buried in the picture I see a Complete Heavy Metal and have it watched hoping no one else see's it and then with 2 hours left is shows up on the Board. I've seen those sort of hidden gems show up before.


It is this type of auction that I totally agree shouldn't be outed.

Or let's say a carded figure like a V2 SE that is mistitled and is currently going for very cheap.

Isn't part of the fun of those auctions finding them yourselves?

Very good conversation so far. Lot's of good points and no flaming.

I agree with DB. Great discussion!

In reading throughout the responses so far, I also wanted to add another bit to the discussion.

Those "for" auction outing might argue that revealing an auction for a "rare" item, would actually be a benefit to all board members,as it exposes them to something they may not have had know of/or had interest in. They might argue "Well, why should everyone else NOT be made aware of this auction. Why should certain people have the advantage over others"

This type of thought falls into the typical "have" vs. "have not" (us vs. them, rich vs. poor, experience collector vs. newbie, etc) mentality. I've never been able to suppor this type of belief.

Gijoe is such a great line, in that is is so incredibly VAST in it's scope. I certainly have the foci I concentrate on, and I know most collectors here have certain areas they are collecting. Chances are, if items pop-up on Ebay, they will be on the radar screen with those particular collectors. Most collectors who are dedicated, will spend a good amount of time & work in searching Ebay for items they are after.

In outing auctions, you then generate the bids from the more casual "Well, I want it because it's rare" crowd. Or, "I want it, because others want it" crowd. And even the "I just want to bid on it, and not plan to win" section.

The "I deserve one too" attitude, when dealing with collecting is generally not a good position to support.

-Peter

allow, people should be able to discuss auctions, help others to see those, because they are looking for it for so long etc etc.
People who really want it should pay more bucks then.
If no one finds that auction then you've got luck.
If this won't be allowed anymore, then what about people who have their own auctions?
Don't mention it anymore? Because I don't see a big difference in telling that you put your own item on ebay or telling that someone else is putting that rare item on ebay.

No one is saying there is going to be a rule on the board against outing auctions.

I brought it up so we could have a discussion about it and maybe see if there is a consensus about this practice. Here we could have a voice on how we feel about those posts.

I also brought this up because I think there are people that do out auctions and don't know that a lot of other collectors look down at the practice.

I am just trying to shed some light and create a topic that would have some healthy discussion behind it.

People who really want it should pay more bucks then.


This is fine if you value only the money you spend on items. Some people have more money than time, some have more time than money. (FYI:I fall in the middle, look for deals but spend more if I really want it). I dont feel it is fair to the guy with limited cash that has been searching for a year to lose the item to someone who didnt even find it themselves.

And I got to agree with dockingbay, not quite the same, but it is fun to get a deal on a CG because the seller spelled it Gaurd!

I don't like people talking about auctions before it ends.

If you want to talke about an auction, it should be done after it is over.

It does take a lot of work finding auctions, and if you're watching something, then somebody posts it, it could go skyhigh.

I don't have time to watch ebay all day. I would rather items get outed so i can at least see them. Before the end rather than after. Is there anyway to get a permanent auction watcher on YoJoe's staff? Then a dedicated forum for outing auctions? Can I be Mod?

Is there anyway to get a permanent auction watcher on YoJoe's staff? Then a dedicated forum for outing auctions?

Sorry Kevin, I've gotta completely & strongly disagree with this type of move. In fact it's probably 100% opposite of what I like to see done (absolutely no current auction outing, except by sellers in a auction category) :)

I work 45+ hours a week, but still manage to find time to search Ebay for items I'd like. I do it because I really do enjoy the search & hunt for cool new Joe items. As a collector of a bunch of toylines, I think the searching is really almost the greatest part of collecting! So, because it's my hobby and "love", I certainly make time & set aside time to search Ebay.

Heck, it would be great if someone actually ent to my job & WORKED in my place (but sent the pay to me), so I can search Ebay and dedicate more time to my hobby. But,"it ain't gonna happen". :D

-Peter

I am not really a fan of auction outing. Most of the time it is done by those who will not bid on the item anyway. They just want to show off "look what I found". It will just drive up prices for no reason for those who do want to bid. As a matter of fact I have stopped tracking quite some auctions because they were outed. To me it didn't feel like a nice find no more.

Advertising your own auctions (also a form of auction outing) is OK by me.

If you are looking for an item, then look for it yourself. If you like to have everything delivered on a silver plate then why not buy somebodies entire collection in one go? The hunt is the most exciting part of collecting. What is the fun of hunting when the deer is in the middle of a forest chained to a tree with signposts leading to it?


I don't have time to watch ebay all day. I would rather items get outed so i can at least see them.
If you have time to search yojoe regularely, you have time to search eBay. Same amount of effort.


allow, people should be able to discuss auctions, help others to see those, because they are looking for it for so long etc etc.
People who are looking for so long and really want to have it should do their research. Nothing wrong with helping each other from time to time, but outing is a bit over the top. Before you know it you got an exact copy of entire auction sites on various boards.


Because I don't see a big difference in telling that you put your own item on ebay or telling that someone else is putting that rare item on ebay.
If a seller really wants to sell, he should advertise himself.

I don't have time to watch ebay all day. I would rather items get outed so i can at least see them. Before the end rather than after. Is there anyway to get a permanent auction watcher on YoJoe's staff? Then a dedicated forum for outing auctions? Can I be Mod?

You can use ebay's search fields and you will get emails everyday and/ or everytime a new auction is listed that meets what you put in the search filter. Oddly enough (for an ebay function) it works great. Just check your email once or twice a day if you're looking for something and you're all set. This even works with BIN items. Sometimes they're gone before you get to ebay, but that happens normally also.

Anyway, you don't have to sit and scroll through ebay everyday. I don't. I only go on ebay if I'm really bored, but I still find the items I want.

If you have time to search yojoe regularely, you have time to search eBay. Same amount of effort..
Oooooh, I would say you're dead wrong there. There are thousands Joe auction on Ebay, and maybe 5 boards here on yoJoe that I check. Out of those 5, there MIGHT be 10 threads that interest me. i can blow through YoJoe in two minutes and be updated. I cannot even get through the first page of Joe listings in 2 minutes.

Regardless...I was joking. Let me introduce you all to my friend, Mr. Sarcasm.

Regardless...I was joking. Let me introduce you all to my friend, Mr. Sarcasm.

Darnit! You got me good, Kevin.

I thought it was kinda an odd position for you to take. Good to know you haven't gone over to the dark side.

Or is that light side? ;)

-Peter

Regardless...I was joking. Let me introduce you all to my friend, Mr. Sarcasm.

Oops, missed the sarcasm too... But, for those that didn't know, you can get emails from ebay. :)

i have expierenced this first hand with a red escape armour( red sanke armor)

it was going for 40 dollars after 4 days and then someone posts a "hey what is this worth" and it doubles in 24 hours from the post. I would think that only a real novice collector would make that mistake. And most novice collectors dont know enough about joes to even know who a guacho , or jammer, or dolphin , or other somewhat rare/ foreign figures are.

So if i go with this theory, i would think it is a person posts a how much is this figure worth, they are more than likely trying to adverstise it.

you could discuss this from many angles, like " a novice would link the auction and not just ask" or vise versa, or a seller would want to be inconspicous and not put the auction link in the thread .

I tend to think that it is usually a seller trying to get advertising. I think it is wrong. No sense in driving up the cost of joes , they are finally dropping.

Oops, missed the sarcasm too... But, for those that didn't know, you can get emails from ebay. :)

Yup, I have thirteen searches setup to email me just for firefly, and several more for different Star Wars items.

-----

BTW, fortunately for me, I have never had outing affect an auction I was bidding on (or not that I noticed), but I certainly can understand the pain that one would feel if this happened. In the end I guess it is bad.

there's a lot of good points raised here. Myself, i think asking about a super rare piece's price is acceptable. something along the lines around PPD or Satan. But just your everyday run of the mill joes (one of dukes 80 millions versions) is wrong. I have noticed that when hasbro starts to release something (old mold) the older versions start to rise in price because of all the hype. Look at the night force stuff, granted some of the stuff is somewhat hard to find. But when hasbro released the new 6 pack in the first part of this year, that stuff went through the roof. There were tons of people asking " is this a fair price night force falcon" or what is he worth etc. so people where all hyped about night force and so the price was insane. now look, the night force stuff has really leveled off again. perhaps just a simple question asking " is satan rare, or is duke v1 rare" then go from there. but hey who am I to tell people what to do, lol.

I mean, COME ON guys, i say that i have no time to watch Ebay, then ask to be mod of a forum where I watch ebay all day? My god, the HUMOR!!! It writes itself! it could be a buddy-collector dramady...with me and Chris rock, and the skinny olsen twin...She's hot. oops, off topic.

oh and Snake, that actually sounds really cool. I think I will actually look into that.

Myself, i think asking about a super rare piece's price is acceptable. something along the lines around PPD or Satan.

It is the rare & uncommon items, that I particularly would NOT like to see links posted to. And there is a HUGE world of a difference in rarity between a carded Argentina Satan and a Pimp Daddy Destro. Argentina Satan's pop-up on Ebay every few weeks or so. PDD is argueably the most famous true rarity. So it's kinda not the best comparison.

The auction for that carded Satan that was linked you linked to a few times, was being watched by some collectors here. I was watching it, too. Don't worry, I'm not angry or bitter with you or anything, publicenemy. It's all good, and (as I said) Satan's are pretty much avialable consistently.

But I noticed that when you posted, you were primarily interested in finding out how much Satan's are priced at. Instead of posting a link to a current auction, you could have simply started a post asking "Hey, I'm interested in buying a carded Argentina Satan. Can you guys who collect this area of 'Joes tell me what amount I should expect to pay?"

Again, I'm not trying to give you a hard time or anything, just let you know a little more about how alot of collectors look at this part of board ettiquette. :) If you had posted just asking questions, etc, it wouldn't be "outing" an auction. And I'm sure you'd get plenty of good replies about the price too, as there are a ton of great people here to help out.

Again, I'd be supportive of an "official unwritten" rule of some sort regardng auction outing behavior. Doesn't have to be in writing, just pretty much common knowledge.

-Peter

SIGH. . .:rolleyes:

So called "auction outing" is an assumptive term.

Period.

The bidder has no real knowledge how many people are camping on the item they're hoping to get. Think about it. Trying to discourage others from possibly bidding by making a board rule against posting auctions is also assumptive, not to mention it's ineffectiveness.

Fair is fair. Every man/woman for themselves.

IMO, this is just another lame attempt to manipulate auctions by people who are either too cheap or can't afford to bid on ebay.

-PJ

I personally don't mind discussing auctions. I don't see anything wrong with it. As far as I'm concerned there should be less restrictions on bulletin boards. I haven't seen people mention Ebay auctions on here very often. And most of the time it's after the auction is over. And yes I do bid on auctions.

The bidder has no real knowledge how many people are camping on the item they're hoping to get. Think about it. Trying to discourage others from possibly bidding by making a board rule against posting auctions is also assumptive, not to mention it's ineffectiveness.


Seriously, I was only looking for opinions, there is NO RULE in the works.

And Kevin maybe only because I "know" you (in that we have met a couple of times) but I saw your Sarcasm a mile away.

So, let me get this right then.

According to all the replies I'm reading, the general view seems to be that while we are all here on this forum we should be best buddies talking about joes, Hasbro etc. and sharing our views, but, when we get on to ebay we are all to become enemies, hiding auctions so no one else can bid on them and frowning on anyone who asks about an auction.

Doesn't sound very nice to me guys or am I missing something?

FYI, I have never outed an auction and I both buy and sell on ebay.

Regardless...I was joking. Let me introduce you all to my friend, Mr. Sarcasm.
ROFL! :D Unlike Dockingbay97 I don't know you good enough to spot your sarcasm miles away. No offence intended.


Trying to discourage others...
Keeping things silent is not discouraging, it is just NOT encouraging.


IMO, this is just another lame attempt to manipulate auctions by people who are either too cheap or can't afford to bid on ebay.
I can easily afford to bid on eBay, but you tell me: why would I tell others what I am bidding on? Me doing this will only attract more competition, hence increase the final price. Should I invite hordes of extra bidders and end up paying more?

Anyway, with thousands of collectors on eBay there is no way somebody can actually keep any auction for themselves. There will always be others hunting the same prey. But when not outing all the competitors will be hunters who took the effort to search and find the auction.

I usually like reading your posts, Paul, but I have to wonder about this one.



The bidder has no real knowledge how many people are camping on the item they're hoping to get. Think about it.

That's exactly the point of the discussion. You could be watching something very interesting to you and maybe 30-50 other people might have taken the time to look at the same listing. Suddenly someone posts the link to the still active auction (just here, nevermind all the other boards out there) and that auction will be looked at by another 100-200 people easy ontop of however many might have seen it before hand. Now your coveted item that might not have been to appealing to too many people has another hundred+ sets of eyes looking at it for however long until the auction ends.

Hey, if that's something you enjoy, post a link to every auction you intend to bid on for the rest of this month and let's see how well you do.


Trying to discourage others from possibly bidding by making a board rule against posting auctions is also assumptive, not to mention it's ineffectiveness.


There's no rule... there's been no suggestion of a rule, and Dockingbay has repeatedly stated he just wanted to have a discussion about the topic. Let's not make things up.


IMO, this is just another lame attempt to manipulate auctions by people who are either too cheap or can't afford to bid on ebay.

What a crass and overly rude statement to make. You don't know anything about me or most of the other people that have posted in this thread or on the boards. Who are you to make the assertation that anyone is cheap or can't afford anything? You have no idea what people can or can't do, so why would you even say something like that? That was just a dumb thing to say.

I'll often agree with the majority of your positions I've read. But, I have to disagree with you on this, PJ. :)




So called "auction outing" is an assumptive term. Period.
It's not truly an assumptive term in the usage here. Perhaps generally, but here there are certainly a few defined knowns.

1.) This Yojoe messageboard draws the attention of Gijoe fans and people interested in collecting Joes. Approximately 4,500 (wow!) are now members (4,477, as I just checked).

So...you KNOW that thousands of people make the specific effort to visit Yojoe messageboards, because they are specifically interested in Gijoe collecting.

2.) Posting a link to a current auction on Yojoe, will immediately get the attention of these people who specifically visit Yojoe because of their specific interest in collecting Gijoe.

So...you KNOW that the auction link has the potential of attracting the attention of the 4,477 Gijoe collectors (sure not all of them, but definitely a number in this range).

3.) Once the auction is posted in certain categories, it will generate more exposure (definitely) and will generate more bids (likely).

So...you KNOW an auction posted on Yojoe will generate more exposure and likely more bids, to an already qualified audience.

We can conclude that by posting an auction on Ebay, it is definitely & specifically exposed to (potentially) thousands of pre-qualified (already interested) Gijoe collectors, who will likely bid up the price of the auction. “Auction Outing” is certainly not an assumptive term, as applies to this discussion.

As a seller...this is great! As a bidder this is bad, as it automatically adds these predictable likelihoods into your bidding scenario. And the "For Auction" section is illustrative of this idea. It wouldn't be there if sellers posting auctions to Yojoe weren't accomplishing the goal of exposing the auction to a receptive/interested collection of people.


IMO, this is just another lame attempt to manipulate auctions by people who are either too cheap or can't afford to bid on ebay.-PJ
It certainly benefits a bidder to enact some controls to auctions, as avoiding additional attention by not having them exposed to a group of receptive collectors.

But, I'd gather the "cheap" and "can't afford" part is very much broadly unfounded. (It certainly is for me, but I can only speak for myself)

-Peter

Okay, I read all the replies on this. IMO, Antybots is right on the money. I'm not going to quote everyone verbatum though, as I'm really not fighting about this.

But the subject in general makes me angry. Probably one of the few things that gets my emotions going. Before someone gets offended though, please ask yourself if I was ever singling anyone out in my post. The answer is obviously NO. I respect everyone here despite any current or past disagreements. I want people to respect me because I focus on the topic alone, not the person behind it. That's respecting you, and you, and you over there lurking.

I admit I was hasty in jumping to the conclusion that a rule was going to be applied when all we were doing was "kicking the idea around" so-to-speak. In my experience, discussion usually leads to future changes. I admit though, this might not be the case. Call me paranoid, but I'm very against it. It really makes me feel uncomfortable even discussing it. Why?

Well first, there's too many variables in posts regarding auction listings that everyone is being too vague on. Sure, we're only discussing "in general" posts with auction links. But for example, what if I post asking if this auction is overpriced?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=2467&item=5921734080&rd=1

OMG!!! Did I just "ruin" this auction for someone else? Sure, chances are that it'll get more traffic from my link alone. Also, chances are that a few cats here will email each other about it, decide to camp on it to snipe. . .etc.

And the seller has a better chance of getting more than the average price for it. Pete's key word is "potential". Good. I agree, we're on the same track. I am also focusing on the that potential. Or rather the obsession over it.

It's (in my opinion again) our collective competitive nature rearing it's ugly head in the desire to put caps on discussion/links on particular juicy bits we're in the middle of hunting down.

And that's the part that angers me. Someone's out there thinking, "Man, if only the board mods would censor discussion on this stuff, I'd surely have a better chance of getting that Heavy Metal w/microphone without having to pay $150 bucks. Gee, wonder what else I can do to tweak it in my favor. . .nyah-ha-ha." Sorry Iron Snake and others, I was reading your minds again. I'll stop, I promise :D

The question is. . .is the very act of posting the link my fault that the high bidder might possibly have to pay more? Like Pete said, we're dealing in possibilities. More than that, it's possibilities upon possibilities.

Your imaginations are all running the same scenario on a figure that can vary wildly in price based on alot of factors. All who disagree with me are focusing on one (only one) variable. . .& that's hype alone.

"Auction outing" is indeed assumptive because the emphasis is only on that hype factor. Many Joe items experience this even without being linked. Remember when CGIs were all the rage? Remember the big Vypra hype? Discussion alone caused most of that. No matter what you do, you can't manipulate the hype factor.

The auction is an open public post. I have nothing to gain from going, "Hey, check this out." But someone else might. For example, I've posted some auction links on this board,and people who don't normally bid on ebay actually thanked me for doing it. That is another "possibility" we have been brushing off in this thread.

OTOH, I've been the high bidder on items that were later posted on the forums and lost to someone else. Was I upset?

YEAH.

Do I have the desire to snuff all ebay discussion so I can get a cheap MISB Defiant?

Heck, yeah baby! I freely admit that I have the same WRONG SELFISH intent as any other hardcore collector. Sure, making a (wink-wink, nod & handshake) "keep-it-all-under-your-hat" kind of rule on the board would have (in all probablility) scored me the Joe. It's very attractive. But in the end, I had no fundamentally exclusive right to the listing. Nor did I deserve any special treatment. Because the auction is open to as many people that want to bid on it.

-PJ

I think this is a double edged sword.This can be a way to help or hurt.I do think it helps more than hurts.If you want my opinion,things should stay the way they are.

I see no problem with it if you post your own auction in the auction section of this sight. Its called advertising.

Okay, I read all the ....blah blah blah...bid on it.

-PJ
you hit the nail on the head. no one has any kind of exclusivity rights to the auctions on ebay. if you do not like the practice, don't click on the links. the people that do are just trying to share and share alike. it is an attempt to share a bit with fellow collectors.

i only look for a select group of things when i search for joes on ebay. when someone posts a link to something, i learn a little bit more about the joes. i do not think that i have ever actually bid on anything that was linked, but i appreciated that it was brought to my attention.

***ugliness to follow***

the is a capitalist nation. this is a free market economy. this is a free society. if you want things kept secret, move to a communist nation where information is controlled. but do not impose your arbitrary rules on those of us who enjoy our freedoms.........like the 1st amendment

Amphigory, this is not a first amendment issue.

Yojoe is a privately owned website, and as such their rules (whatever they are) are to be followed. No matter what, you can't simply post whatever you want, whenever you want.

This is not a rule, it is a general courtesy extended to other collectors.

Also, if the the motive is to truly share knowledge about a Gijoe item with community, that can be done after the auction ends.

-Peter

Amphigory, this is not a first amendment issue.

Yojoe is a privately owned website, and as such their rules (whatever they are) are to be followed. No matter what, you can't simply post whatever you want, whenever you want.

This is not a rule, it is a general courtesy extended to other collectors.

Also, if the the motive is to truly share knowledge about a Gijoe item with community, that can be done after the auction ends.

-Peter
you are correct about this being a private website. but you missed the main point of what i had to say.

are you saying that the people who do not scour ebay, do not have the right to this information? or that this information should not be passed along in the interest of community and sharing with fellow collectors? why are you on a forum, if not for the sharing of information?

Also, if the the motive is to truly share knowledge about a Gijoe item with community, that can be done after the auction ends.

-Peter

exactly...if you just want to talk about an item on ebay...does it really hurt to wait 7 days?

I see no problem with it if you post your own auction in the auction section of this sight. Its called advertising. I totally agree with you. That's not the issue though. See the issue is we have a forum specificly for auction listing... yet people bring auctions to the other main forums (mostly the Toys forum).

IMO, it's off topic when there's a specific forum for Auction outing and Active Auctions already.

It's not like YoJoe doesn't have a place for auctions. The thing is.. not everyone visits the auction board. And so Sellers will always try to take advantage and out their own auctions on the Toys board and elsewhere.



you are correct about this being a private website. but you missed the main point of what i had to say.

are you saying that the people who do not scour ebay, do not have the right to this information? or that this information should not be passed along in the interest of community and sharing with fellow collectors? why are you on a forum, if not for the sharing of information? Dude, there's a forum here specificly for Auctions. Just fequently check out that board. I do. However I wouldn't start posting interesting auctions to the main Toys board because something interesting showed up. I'd wait till it was over to show off my unusual find (wether or not I was bidding on it or not).

are you saying that the people who do not scour ebay, do not have the right to this information? or that this information should not be passed along in the interest of community and sharing with fellow collectors? why are you on a forum, if not for the sharing of information?

amphigory, I do understand your position. But, go back to my second post in this thread and I've addresses this aspect of the conversation. (I had predicted this line of arguement would eventually enter into this discussion.)

But, to quickly answer your questions:
1.) Yes. People who do not "scour ebay" (aka actually work to produce the benefits) absolutely are not entitled to have this info conveniently served-up to them.
2.) As stated, if the idea is truly to discuss the item, and not simply "out the auction", then it can be discussed at a time after the auction it over. OR...discussed specifically, without linking to an auction.
3.) I am on this forum to befriend other collectors, find items I'm looking for, help others find items they are after, and discuss many aspects about the toyline we love.

As mentioned, it's typically frowned upon on many established collecting messageboards.

-Peter

How come nobody's addressing the points I made, huh? Doesn't anyone wanna argue with me ('snif)? :p

Or are y'all chicken??? :D

In order to perform this so-called (cough) "courtesy" some necessary discourtesy (in the form of board censorship & exclusivism) must take place.

Gettin' chilly in here.

But it's as simple as that. Even if you don't see it as a form of exclusivism, others do. Some have already expressed their offense at this (um, Antybots who??? :D), which proves my point.

-PJ

Obiwanjacoby, I don't think your getting any opposition to your last major post simply because it's so long no one read it :p

Ok that's not it... I think people just see that others have opinions on the matter. This is a discussion. No rule is to follow. However, maybe next time you find an auction to out you'll already think... "nah, it's not worth it... I'll wait till it's over... it would be rude of me to pontentially keep one of my board friends from getting this item just because I'm not going to bid". Or something like that ;)



In another community I have deep roots into (multiple years)... people are pretty respectful of one another when it comes to ebay listings. Sometimes someone (someone everyone in the community pretty much knows) will have a Q about something or will be hunting a specific item.. and just out of courtesy I, and most others, if hunting the same item secretly... usually will kind of let some auctions slip by so that friend has a chance at getting the item at a good price. Is that wrong to be friendly with others? I don't think so. Is there a rule about that stuff? Nope.. just an unspoken understanding of hooking other people up with good deals because rather that be selfish... we can let some stuff go and be unselfish out of nuturing the community and overall just being friendly.

Here, things are more competitive. Unfortunately not everyone is layed back and looking to hook the friends they have here up on good deals. If I found something I knew someone was hunting... I wouldn't post it to the board... I'd private message the person.

I'm just friendly like that.

Too bad more people aren't :(

i can't believe that people have made this stupid thread into an issue of "censorship". it's freak'n toys!!! i swear some people are acting as if the 'man' is trying to rob you of your rights. the mods can make rules about posting auctions if they want. it's their board! do i agree with them, no. i think is just another way for people to be greedy and stop others from looking at something they are going to bid on. that's what i think. but do the mods owe me a reason why they don't want it posted? NO! if they could not run these boards how they wish, then that would be censorship.

Obiwanjacoby, I don't think your getting any opposition to your last major post simply because it's so long no one read it

Heh. . .you're right. I feel the need to front-load alot of reasoning and evidence into my posts for anyone to believe me. Then nobody wants to read it :rolleyes:

I admit I'm not a master of the sound bite :D



However, maybe next time you find an auction to out you'll already think..."nah, it's not worth it... I'll wait till it's over... it would be rude of me to pontentially keep one of my board friends from getting this item just because I'm not going to bid". Or something like that

Y'know, I just outed an auction during this very thread. :eek:

I'm SO SORRY!!! If I offended anyone, email me the amount you're convinced you would have got it for (had I not been so rude). . .and I'll pay YOU the difference ;)


Here, things are more competitive. Unfortunately not everyone is layed back and looking to hook the friends they have here up on good deals. If I found something I knew someone was hunting... I wouldn't post it to the board... I'd private message the person.

Why don't you go one better and do what I always do? Win the auction the person was looking for, then sell it to them for the price you paid. Heck, I even eat the shipping (inside the US), and dig this. . .I take the competition out from under them at the same time!


I'm just friendly like that.

Too bad more people aren't

Yeah, too bad. Hey, how about we move this away from the subject of how we treat our select friends and how we should treat the forum public in general? Doesn't everyone on the forum deserve the same treatment? Auctions should be kept in open discussion (short of spamming, of course) so that everyone gets a fair shake at bidding.

I thought a Joe was only worth what you were willing to pay for it? What happened? I had that preached to me for the past four years until my ears bled. Now all I'm hearing is, "A Joe is only worth the listing price with the least hype." Can't have it both ways gang.

Oh, man. Now that was a beaut of a soundbite baby.

-PJ

If I outed my own auction, would anyone be mad enough not to bid?

Good gravy, who cares.........

If I outed my own auction, would anyone be mad enough not to bid?


You know it Toe... I would convince EVERYONE in the world to avoid you like the plague...

Then with 10 sec. left, I would snipe it!

Tanner

Good gravy, who cares.........
A lot more people than you think.

Good gravy, who cares.........

If you didn't care why'd you dredge up a two month old thread?

That one's my fault Iron, he asked in another thread why everyone was getting so touchy about auction outing. I provided him the link. My bad!

Really it takes a time or two of you watching a nice tasty unknown auction, have it outed here and lose it to big money and you won't be a big fan of outing either. Usually the biggest foes of outing are long term collectors.

I know about 3 or 4 years ago I scored a complete vintage ROTJ Imperial Shuttle with the box for $60. It was labeled as an unknown space shuttle in the other action figure catagory - no mention of Star Wars even though they had the box right there in the pic. I sweated that auction until the end.

I could have lived without it, I already had one but I wanted to get it for dirt cheap so I could say I had. It was all about the thrill of the hunt.

Had that auction been outed, it would have probably sold for at least $150.

And really at the end of the day, can you have too many Imperial Shuttles? I think not.

Thanks for the bump, unintentional though it was; I don't normally look into the policy forum. Having read the posts, I've formed an opinion that the wise and courteous thing to do is (at least generally) to refrain from posting others' open auctions.

In the interests of contributing to the discussion, here are a couple other thoughts in favor of restraint:

(1) "Sharing" an auction by making it public may seem to be a considerate gesture, but we can only be generous with what is ours. Publicizing another seller's auction, thus causing the high bidder to lose or pay a much higher price, is taking something away from that bidder, who for all we know might be someone we care about and may have invested considerable time and effort to track down and find that item, and to save up the money for it. This is a risk any bidder makes ("all part of the game"), but there's nothing noble about "offering" someone else's auction. It's sort of like letting someone cut into a line you yourself are not even standing in.

(2) Outing auctions discourages financial discipline. If we must seek out an item on eBay, or at least the boards designated for trade, there's (at least potentially) more deliberation involved in choosing an item and making a bid. But outed auctions encountered randomly on the Toys board promote impulse buying: readers now have an urge for something they may not have had interest in before, and may later regret their expenditure. The less of this sort of unsought advertising we expose one another to, the better off we'll all be; the more money we'll have for the Joes we genuinely want. Again, it's not that we need to be babysat, but it's a way of acting for one another's benefit.

"Sharing" an auction by making it public may seem to be a considerate gesture, but we can only be generous with what is ours. Publicizing another seller's auction, thus causing the high bidder to lose or pay a much higher price, is taking something away from that bidder,
Whoa-whoa-whoa!!! "We can only be generous with what is ours", right? That logic goes both ways. A single bid still doesn't make it yours, it's still up for grabs to anyone looking for it. Thus, nothing is "taken away" from the bidder.

Sure, I'll admit it's possibly adding more competiton, but you can't prove that, and you simply can't "out" something that's not hidden to begin with. Sure, the listing takes some sifting through and can be overlooked if you're not paying attention, but there's still nothing to "out".

"Auction outing" is a term based on individual fan's imaginations and competitive fears. And again, no one knows the exact number of people camping on the auction. You can note hits from the counters, but not the campers.


who for all we know might be someone we care about and may have invested considerable time and effort to track down and find that item, and to save up the money for it.
Then they'd have the foresight to save up enough in case the auction had serious competition then, correct? That above statement assumes the avg. price on an auction. There's no promise or special deal or agreement you can make on a fan forum that will keep you from paying more than the avg. price.

Dockingbay '97's shuttle example is an example of bidding on a mistaken or vague listing that you're smart enought to look deeper into. If I or anyone else "outed" the auction, no one would be to blame for publicizing it. The price goes up, the bidders get mad (unreasonably so IMO), but it's a public auction.

This is a risk any bidder makes ("all part of the game"), but there's nothing noble about "offering" someone else's auction. It's sort of like letting someone cut into a line you yourself are not even standing in.
Using your (grossly fault-ridden) analogy, then ebay is a place where everyone is virtually waiting in line for one item? No. The person with the most cash is up front. Let's say I print a cheap ad in the paper for an original Clapton guitar or something and only five bidders show up to my house. They gonna be happy? Sure, you bet. But if the TV news shows up, you gonna blame the media? It's an auction, not a 6am doorbuster sale at WAL-MART.

-PJ

I know about 3 or 4 years ago I scored a complete vintage ROTJ Imperial Shuttle with the box for $60. It was labeled as an unknown space shuttle in the other action figure catagory - no mention of Star Wars even though they had the box right there in the pic. I sweated that auction until the end.
That's because you knew something the other potential bidders didn't take time to look into. The fault was with the seller's listing. That didn't make it a "hidden auction" either.

Have I lost some really rare auctions because they were over publicized? YES! Do I blame anyone or point fingers? NO! It's a public auction!

Will I still try to avoid attention on the auctions I bid on???

. . .oh, yeah you bet! ;)

-PJ

Come on, you know that auction outing is real and not a boogey man imagined thing.

The hard fact is there is an incredible amount of stuff on eBay - so much you can't find it all - I mean I really try.

There are going to be hidden gems that maybe one or two people on this board will see.

When someone else comes along that has no intent to bid, comes here and says - "Look, it is a complete Heavy Metal for only $10 with 2 hours left!", the bidding is likely to sky rocket - in part due to the advertisement here.

A lot of people use this board so advertising an auction has a direct effect on its price.

Would the item have sky rocketed on its own? Hard to tell but outing it didn't help it stay low.

Like I have tried to say - it is more of a courtesy to your fellow yojoers not to out auctions. Let people have a chance to get a suprise good deal.

After all you could have find yourself in a position to get a complete Heavy Metal for under $5 - I know I did.

Unless, it's your auction, I don't want ebay links shown by other people that have no intention of bidding in the first place. Do your own home work and find the auctions yourself. Plus Ebay gets too much exposure on this message board and they don't have to pay a cent for it.

Come on, you know that auction outing is real and not a boogey man imagined thing.No, I'm sincerely convinced that it is. Couldn't have put the term better myself.


The hard fact is there is an incredible amount of stuff on eBay - so much you can't find it all - I mean I really try. There are going to be hidden gems that maybe one or two people on this board will see.Can't deny that. All true. But they're still listed, they're still visible. I've found everything I'd concentrated on to find. What's your problem Dock?


When someone else comes along that has no intent to bid, comes here and says - "Look, it is a complete Heavy Metal for only $10 with 2 hours left!", the bidding is likely to sky rocket - in part due to the advertisement here.Also very-very true. . .(twiddling thumbs)


A lot of people use this board so advertising an auction has a direct effect on its price.I admitted that how many times now? :rolleyes:


Hard to tell but outing it didn't help it stay low.That's the part you can't prove now. And even if you could, the people who (cough) "outed" the auction did nothing wrong. They can't be accused of anything except publicizing an auction that all of us greedy bidders want secret, 'eh? Notice I include myself among them (did it this entire thread in fact).


Like I have tried to say - it is more of a courtesy to your fellow yojoers not to out auctions. Let people have a chance to get a suprise good deal.I agree with the gesture as long as the courtesy is kept as a free will option. But the sad fact is that it's enforced as a rule on other forums. . .creating a sub-community that deliberately tries to manipulate secondary market values. Not that I have a problem with it as a buyer mind you, but I'm still gonna call it for what it is. And what it is. . .is trying to subvert or minimize competition. Getting a phat discount on a Joe is great, but competition is also a good thing. Keeps the sellers going, encourages others to sell the same item later on down the road, and stablizes the value of your collection (not saying anyone's an investor or anything).

But if I pay $150 for a Heavy Metal with mike, I get just as upset when an auction is kept "hush-hush" through what I see as "market cheating through publicity cover-up". You say Tomato. . .I say tomatoe. . .same thing.


After all you could have find yourself in a position to get a complete Heavy Metal for under $5 - I know I did.Sure I would! Yes! In a heartbeat.

BUT. . .

I'd feel really-really guilty if I did it by squelching the competiton around me through board censorship. Really. You see outing as steping on one high bidder? I see outing as stepping on multiple possible bidders, plus the
seller. . .combined.

So is anyone finally getting my side of this yet? In case you missed it the first time,I said:


I thought a Joe was only worth what you were willing to pay for it? What happened? I had that preached to me for the past four years until my ears bled. Now all I'm hearing is, "A Joe is only worth the listing price with the least hype." Can't have it both ways gang. -PJ

this is totally absurd.
totally outrageous.

1.) Yes. People who do not "scour ebay" (aka actually work to produce the benefits) absolutely are not entitled to have this info conveniently served-up to them.

whatever.
you guys are all nuts
"secret" auctions.
sorry, but i feel worse for the seller who makes an error or whatever and gets swindled
out of getting what they deserve for a figure
-with rampant sniping, everyone should be sniping anyway (UNfortunately), and realize that you are more than likely only the high bidder in your head anyway

this is totally absurd.
totally outrageous.


whatever.
you guys are all nuts
"secret" auctions.
sorry, but i feel worse for the seller who makes an error or whatever and gets swindled
out of getting what they deserve for a figure
-with rampant sniping, everyone should be sniping anyway (UNfortunately), and realize that you are more than likely only the high bidder in your head anyway

First someone can't sell a new toy on eBay because they are a scalper.
Now we can't try to get a good deal on something on eBay because we are swindling the buyer and not giving them what they deserve?

Am I supposed to follow Thorn's guide to socialist ebaying now? Please let me know the rules so I don't break all of them.

Kidding

Seriously now, auction outing is not against the rules here and won't be in the future. It is just being mentioned as it is considered bad collector ettiquite to a lot of collectors.

Well,

I see both of your points.
But on the other I for one, would be glad if I win an auction someone else showed it on a board.
There's a hate-love relationship :)

Hate when a auction gets publicized and you allready bid on it and loses or the prize went sky high and love when in gets publicized and you didn't notice that auction and you are able to win a fig that you want very bad.

I think we should just live with it.

Thanks a lot Jeff for bringing my name up (early in this thread)! OK, I am fairly new not only to this board but also to collecting Joes so I have been guilty of "outing" a couple of auctions simply because I wanted to know more about the value of the piece or I wanted to let some people know about the auction. My viewpoint changed a few months ago when someone mentioned in a thread that someone else shouldn't have "outed" an auction. After thinking about it I decided to not do it again. However, I still want to let my fellow collectors know about certain auctions so here is my current strategy for dealing with this issue:

1) I will wait until an auction has closed before I post a link to it.

2) If I know a person collects a certain thing I will send them a PM while the auction is still up. I have done this for Jeff Bohn when I saw the Impel binder (after I had already outbid him on one of them--sorry Jeff!) and for Drew (aka dryhawk37) when I saw certain paperwork and Funskool auctions.

3) As Jeff Bohn brought up earlier, if I see a Dutch auction I will go ahead and "out" it if I think there is enough to go around.

Well, this is my current strategy for dealing with this--please don't hurt me!

Dan Moore

I think if its not described right or if there is a gem hidden in a lot that no one should post it. But if its something that can easily be found chances are all of the bidders that will raise the price up already know about it so I don't see a harm in that because its going to reach a high price. The other day I found a gold head steel brigade in an auction and got it with a lot of other joes for like 76 now if it was public knowledge it would have shot a ton higher. Its auctions like those that ruin the anticipation for someone who found a gem and searched hard for it so reward those people. Me personally I don't get mad because there is always another day to win it again.

Oh ya one more thing when someone posts asking about a piece and how rare it is. First thing I think of its up for auction so that can be bad also.

Send a message via MSN to dockingbay97

Quote:
Originally Posted by thorn
this is totally absurd.
totally outrageous.


whatever.
you guys are all nuts
"secret" auctions.
sorry, but i feel worse for the seller who makes an error or whatever and gets swindled
out of getting what they deserve for a figure
-with rampant sniping, everyone should be sniping anyway (UNfortunately), and realize that you are more than likely only the high bidder in your head anyway


First someone can't sell a new toy on eBay because they are a scalper.
Now we can't try to get a good deal on something on eBay because we are swindling the buyer and not giving them what they deserve?

Am I supposed to follow Thorn's guide to socialist ebaying now? Please let me know the rules so I don't break all of them.


hehehe no it's the other way around-
first we cant talk about scalpers as a bad thing, second we cant talk about auctions we aren't bidding on.

Yeah dock, im telling you not to get a good deal.
GET OVER IT. i am telling you not t ocry just becasue you don't get the deal you want,
and not to pretend that becasue some yojer outed an auction, you suddenly lost it.
nobody has any idea how many people are watching an auction, planning on sniping it.

it's funny how the people comlpaining most about auction outing are the same ones that go to such lengths to defend scalping.

really twisted. some of you not only want to profit off every toy that hits stores, but get every rare piece for less than it is worth?????/


seems like some people want a very unlevel field.

I can't sell for too much and I am not allowed to buy for too little.

That does sound too much like a Berkeley dreamstate.

If you want at least $x for an item on eBay, start the auction at $x and not less or put a reserve on the item.

Can I get your cel phone # from you? It looks like may need to run all my transactions by you to make sure I am doing the socially conscious choice. What should I be paying for my half gallons of 8th Continent chocolate soy milk? Right now they are $3.99 at most stores but I buy them for $2.38 at Wal-Mart. Is that ok that I am buying them from the big blue machine for less than large chain grocery stores charge?

What should I be paying for my half gallons of 8th Continent chocolate soy milk? Right now they are $3.99 at most stores but I buy them for $2.38 at Wal-Mart. Is that ok that I am buying them from the big blue machine for less than large chain grocery stores charge?:eek: I'll give you five bucks for your 1/2gal. of Continent chocolate soy milk!

But if someone else sees this post (or worse, if someone posts the URL in another forum), then offers more for it, and you accept their offer over
mine. . .I'll get mad and blame them for seeing this public offer for your 1/2 gal. of Continent chocolate soy milk! :p

No wait!I'll blame who ever posted the link! Heck I just wanna blame someone for my loss of an entire 1/2 gal. of Continent chocolate soy milk!

Oh, and nobody better be looking at this or telling anyone else about it! Because even though I'm just offering to buy this 1/2 gal. of Continent chocolate soy milk is essentially already MINE even before Dock accepts!

Yeah! That makes sense to me, so it should to everyone else.

-PJ

Well, this is my current strategy for dealing with this--please don't hurt me!
Dan. . .dude! You're caving into the peer pressure. Don't let 'em bully you around man!

-PJ

PJ,

I'm in the Army man--they don't really scare me! What does scare me a little is the Air Assault course I will be going through in May--not so much the rappeling out of a helicopter as not passing the course because I missed one tiny little detail about something! I was just kidding about the "please don't hurt me" thing but the reason I decided to not out auctions is because someone did it to an auction I was looking at and I didn't like being on the receiving end. Like I said before, I will still PM someone I know is interested in an item--so far I have sent PMs to Jeff Bohn, Jabba the Drunk, and Dryhawk37 to give them a heads up about auctions. My goal on this board is simple--to learn as much as I can about G.I. Joe while educating as many people as I can via my picture posts in the "misc" section. Speaking of Drew (dryhawk37), I have learned more from him than just about any other collector out there, and I noticed he has yet to participate in this thread. I know he recently had surgery on his hand but if you are reading this Drew I am curious as to what your opinion is on this subject.

Dan

:eek: I'll give you five bucks for your 1/2gal. of Continent chocolate soy milk!

But if someone else sees this post (or worse, if someone posts the URL in another forum), then offers more for it, and you accept their offer over
mine. . .I'll get mad and blame them for seeing this public offer for your 1/2 gal. of Continent chocolate soy milk! :p

No wait!I'll blame who ever posted the link! Heck I just wanna blame someone for my loss of an entire 1/2 gal. of Continent chocolate soy milk!

Oh, and nobody better be looking at this or telling anyone else about it! Because even though I'm just offering to buy this 1/2 gal. of Continent chocolate soy milk is essentially already MINE even before Dock accepts!

Yeah! That makes sense to me, so it should to everyone else.

-PJ


I of course no that this example is mostly an exageration, but let me throw out a hypothetical:

I post in the for sale section a v1 Bat for $15
You post that you will take it.
YoJoer X posts that he will give me $25 for it before I even get back to you.
Your post tells me that it would be acceptable to take the better offer? Why does this not seem like the right thing to do?

Getting back to the original topic....why should I search every auction on eBay, scouring the pictures trying to save a buck or $50 on some rare item, when somebody can do it for me and post it here for the world to see?

And I dont feel sorry at all for the seller that posts an auction described as a "1985 China action figure" puts a bid of $ 1 on it and it turns out it is mint complete Snake Eyes. They can do some research too!

But here is the real question. Why would you WANT to spoil a possible deal for someone?

2) If I know a person collects a certain thing I will send them a PM while the auction is still up. I have done this for Jeff Bohn when I saw the Impel binder (after I had already outbid him on one of them--sorry Jeff!) and for Drew (aka dryhawk37) when I saw certain paperwork and Funskool auctions.




This is a great example of how to do it.

But here is the real question. Why would you WANT to spoil a possible deal for someone?What? You take my metaphor as literal, then turn it on it's head, appear to support my opinion, then misinterpret mine?!?? :confused:

-PJ

What? You take my metaphor as literal,

Then it was sarcasm, not a metaphor? Because most times metaphors are literal. Also that is why I asked you the question.


then turn it on it's head,

Isnt that the point of a debate?


appear to support my opinion,

Never once did I support your opinion.


then misinterpret mine?!??

I think you have made it fairly clear what your opinion is, I dont see how any one could misinterpret it.

Then it was sarcasm, not a metaphor? Because most times metaphors are literal. Also that is why I asked you the question.



Isnt that the point of a debate?



Never once did I support your opinion.



I think you have made it fairly clear what your opinion is, I dont see how any one could misinterpret it.

Paul, even you have to admit this one takes the wind out of your sails. :D

-Peter

Paul, even you have to admit this one takes the wind out of your sails. :D
(sigh) Yeah, I do.

And very much so.

Meyer's throwing out the old "confuse 'em and lose 'em" routine. It's prolly the most effective tactic in the world. Killed the whole thread too. Maybe that's what he wanted. Never even tried to reasonably meet me halfway. Oh well, such is the stubborn nature of avarice. . .:rolleyes:

-PJ

Okay, I looked at it more closely and it makes more sense now (can't accuse me of skipping over explanations, like others have :) )


I of course no that this example is mostly an exageration, but let me throw out a hypothetical:

I post in the for sale section a v1 Bat for $15
You post that you will take it.
YoJoer X posts that he will give me $25 for it before I even get back to you.
Your post tells me that it would be acceptable to take the better offer? Why does this not seem like the right thing to do?
Because in your example the so-called "auction" is already closed (due to seller agreement to close for the BAT with myself only) and Mr. X is making an offer after the deal has closed.

So that doesn't wash. That's also clearly not what I'm arguing. Ebay's auctions are open to anyone who can bid until they close.

Sorry, but an auction by it's nature does not consider the feelings of someone who really-really wants the item, but can't afford it due to one reason or another. . .including publicity.


Getting back to the original topic....why should I search every auction on eBay, scouring the pictures trying to save a buck or $50 on some rare item, when somebody can do it for me and post it here for the world to see?You talk about it like there's scores of people with tons of cash just sitting there waiting for random collectible stuff to just pop-up all the time. Dockingbay's example was just blind luck. He didn't boot up for the day planning on getting an Imperial Shuttle.

Second, if somebody posts the auction here and it happens to be something I'm looking for, naturally I'll have to anticipate a tense little bidwar. We meet on all points in this debate short of blaming individuals. That's where we divide.


But here is the real question. Why would you WANT to spoil a possible deal for someone?What possible deal? You're talking from a POV that sees the bidder as the only one on ebay. Do you even bother to scroll down & look at counters? Most don't even have any!

-PJ