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GI Trekker
02-17-2005, 11:01 AM
Friend of mine sent me the following Toy Fair related information:

"Word has broken that the 12" GI Joe has been "retired", and that a new scale will be introduced later this year with vehicles and playsets. This is a huge bummer, but not unexpected--I'd been told that we might only see one or two 12" figures this year anyway. However, I don't know what this means for the 3 3/4" guys."

Okay, I feel badly for the 12" Joes, but this isn't surprising, nor is it my main concern. That line about "vehicles and playsets" worries me, since this sort of tells me that this "new scale" might be more of a threat to the 3-3/4" line. I have no idea what this new scale might be, but 6" Marvel-Legendsish wouldn't surprise me.

What worries me is, indeed, what this means for the 3-3/4" guys. I don't want to see this affect the comic sets or the TRU 6-packs.

And really, is this a good idea? This has NEVER worked. Super Joe, Sgt. Savage, G.I.Joe Extreme -- none of them lasted. And I can't imagine a large percentage of ANY G.I.Joe collectors wanting to start yet ANOTHER scale of G.I.Joe from scratch. I certainly don't, I don't care how cool it looks or how well it's made.

This is NOT a good idea, and I am very worried as to what it might mean for the Real American Hero.

starrcommand
02-17-2005, 11:11 AM
You know Im not surprised either. I mean who wants to buy GI Joe figures w/ molded on shirts and maskes and such. I know I dont, atleast in the 12' line. But I dont collect them so it doesnt really bother me that much.
Am I worried about the 3 3/4" line. Not really. I think it will probably be a 6" or 8" line that will have its own universe. They will be more expensive than the 3 3/4" line and that will make parents hesitant. They will just make the 3 3/4" line more appealing. But I know they will get the push and not the 3 3/4" line. We may fall to the wayside.

Mark W. Bellomo
02-17-2005, 11:13 AM
Will be at Toy Fair this weekend, with a Hasbro appointment on Mon. at 11:00 a.m. Will have news for the site by then.

-- MWB

dockingbay97
02-17-2005, 11:21 AM
They have been wanting to do a Marvel Legend-ish type of figure line for a couple of years.

I would totally be fine with that. I would buy a few.

rjluna
02-17-2005, 01:57 PM
That being said, wouldn't it be cool though to have a marvel legends style(done with great detail) and set them up like statues, which have become really popluar these days?

notpicard
02-17-2005, 02:08 PM
I think this would take some pressure off of the 3 3/4" line. So many people want a restarted continuity while I do not. The ninja Battles DVD already hinted at that, which is something I wasn't happy with.

Perhaps if a new toyline could co-exist I would be okay with it. But I certainly won't be dedicating myself to buying them.

Deogg
02-17-2005, 02:12 PM
I have a VERY bad feeling about this.........

blackdragon
02-17-2005, 02:55 PM
i'd buy them if they're at a reasonable price. But if hasbro does away with 3 3/4 line or doesn't produce them as much, i'm gonna really know how stupid toy company people really are.

GI Trekker
02-17-2005, 03:10 PM
I have a feeling it's going to be a Marvel Legends type of line myself. And I'm worried. I feel badly for 12" collectors who are going to get almost completely shafted this year, but what happens to us?

And consider this -- vehicles and playsets? Not even Marvel Legends does those. Hasbro is looking at a HUGE outlay of money to basically create an all-new G.I.Joe line from scratch. That's a massive gamble, and I think it's a mistake.

Between the probable price tags of these figures and the physical space needed, I have NO interest in this.

So what happens to the Real American Hero? Let's assume this new line uses the same characters. What happens, then, to the Comic/Figure Sets, the TRU 6-Packs, or even Valor vs. Venom? It's going to get downplayed, and that's not a good thing.

Deogg's not the only one who has a very bad feeling about this, and Mr. Bellomo, any information you can relate about this, OR Hasbro's plans for the 3-3/4" line, would be immensely appreciated.

The friend who reported this news to me is also predicting that this year's convention is likely to be something of a catharsis towards Hasbro on the part of ALL the collectors if this sort of thing keeps up. Probably just as well I can't afford to go.

Agent Orange
02-17-2005, 03:22 PM
I have a VERY bad feeling about this.........


Same here.

This is NOT good news for 3-3/4" collectors/fans.

If Hasbro is going to be pouring money into a new line of molds and vehicles, they ARE not going to give the 3-3/4" line the promotion, advertising, and attention it would get otherwise.

And even worse, this sounds like an attempt by Hasbro to consolidate the 3-3/4" and 12" lines into one, thus killing of both the 12" line (which had decreasing sales) and the 3-3/4" line (which no doubt sell for less $$$ than these new, larger figures would).

It sounds like greed on Hasbro's part could very well kill our line again.

We all need to remind them of the failure of GIJoe Extreme and Sgt. Savage!!!!!

CGC
02-17-2005, 03:37 PM
I doubt that the 12" will completely end. Those collectors take their figs even more seriously than we do!

As far as a new scale, like GI Trekker said, there was Super Joe in the '70s and Savage & Extreme in the '90s. None of them did very well, but it's been awhile, & it's time for Hasbro to test the waters again. I don't expect it to replace the 3¾" line, it'll probably get decent attention when it's released, then spend a year or 2 fading away, just like the previous odd scales. But who knows?

Maybe it will take some of the focus off of our 3¾" line, but so what? In November (I think) there was a thread saying that there were 197 figs released in 2004. 197! I'd be just as happy if the number was in the 50-75 range, & with numbers like this, I don't think we have too much to worry about by some experimental competition. ;)

Deogg
02-17-2005, 03:42 PM
Hasbro repeating the mistakes of the past.

It'll be a miracle if the line survives 2005.

Agent Orange
02-17-2005, 03:48 PM
I doubt that the 12" will completely end. Those collectors take their figs even more seriously than we do!

As far as a new scale, like GI Trekker said, there was Super Joe in the '70s and Savage & Extreme in the '90s. None of them did very well, but it's been awhile, & it's time for Hasbro to test the waters again. I don't expect it to replace the 3¾" line, it'll probably get decent attention when it's released, then spend a year or 2 fading away, just like the previous odd scales. But who knows?

Maybe it will take some of the focus off of our 3¾" line, but so what? In November (I think) there was a thread saying that there were 197 figs released in 2004. 197! I'd be just as happy if the number was in the 50-75 range, & with numbers like this, I don't think we have too much to worry about by some experimental competition. ;)


I think you may be underestimating the costs involved in designing, creating new molds, and marketing an entirely new line of figures and vehicles.

Hasbro had to kill the 3-3/4" line in the 1990s, to launch new figures, and it's entirely reasonable that they would have to do it again, especially since the market today is far more hostile to traditional toys than it was even 10 years ago.

dockingbay97
02-17-2005, 03:59 PM
I don't know why there is this panic that 3 3/4 is ending. A new scaled line would not replace 3 3/4. I think it is meant to suppliment the brand and give collectors another option.

And as a supplimental line you the consumer can decide the future of it based on your purchasing dollars.

Do I want 500-600 figures in this scale? No but I would buy a dozen or so.

I see this as a chance for increased articulation and detail for certain figures.

flash70
02-17-2005, 04:35 PM
I have to say we don't need another size change in G.I.JOE...its bad enough trying to get the new legends line rigth will all the scalpers and dealers...now hasbro wants to do this supposed 6-inch line why man ..why...it was a nice thing at last years convention...but not worth making new sizes of these figures...PLEASE HASBRO STOP RE-INVENTING THE WHEEL!!!!!!!!!:mad:

dockingbay97
02-17-2005, 04:40 PM
I have to say we don't need another size change in G.I.JOE...its bad enough trying to get the new legends line rigth will all the scalpers and dealers...now hasbro wants to do this supposed 6-inch line why man ..why...it was a nice thing at last years convention...but not worth making new sizes of these figures...PLEASE HASBRO STOP RE-INVENTING THE WHEEL!!!!!!!!!:mad:

Why so much anger? No one is going to make you buy a new scale. You can still just stick to 3 3/4.

And until we start getting photos of these, it is too early for such negative reactions. I mean we don't even know yet what is going on officially.

Richard J.
02-17-2005, 04:45 PM
Every time Hasbro tries this, it backfires. When are they going to realize that they can't mess with the best!

Anyway, I'm not losing it yet. Aren't sales for the 3 3/4 up lately? If Hasbro cuts down the number of figures they're puting out for our favorite scale, I say thanks! Who needs a bunch of extra Dukes! Trim the fat and make the line lean and mean with nothing but the good stuff.

If Hasbro wants to do a new scale, fine. If they want to waste their money, that's their deal. So long as they don't cancel the 3 3/4 line completely, we'll survive any temporary trouble.

Don't panic folks. We will survive and we will be victorious!


Richard J.

rjluna
02-17-2005, 04:51 PM
I agree somewhat, to slowly migrate the 3-3/4 line and dedicate to a larger line would be not cool(if that were the scenario). But i wouldn't mind having something like the starwars line, you know having the "unleashed" and the smaller line coexist with each other. It works for them, why not with ARAH?

Redmao
02-17-2005, 04:53 PM
Its sad if they put the 12 inch joe aside. I mean the original joe was 12 inch. I collect both scale. I grew up wwith the small joes and I'd be sad to see them bigger. Sure I'd still buy my favorite characters but it wouldnt be the same. What about all the vehicules? bigger isnt better.

As for the 12 incher... man why kill the classic? I know with dragon, bbi and all those company that do 1/6 scale the competition is fierce but man! its Gi Joe we're talking about, the original!!

Keep joe alive!!!

Rotty
02-17-2005, 05:05 PM
Boys, boys (and girls, girls), it's not time to panic yet. Which scale of RAH-mythos figures just got cancelled? That's right, the 1/6 figures. Hasbro is probably looking for a replacement for those, not for our beloved 1/18 scale. There's no need to panic just because someone mentioned the new line would have "vehicles and playsets": the 1/6 figures had vehicles too!

I've seen people in this thread assuming that these are going to be 6" figures because Trekker hypothesized that. Since it was the 1/6 line that just got cancelled, I suspect Hasbro is actually looking for a smaller scale in which to do figures with real clothing, which is the main difference between 3 3/4-7" and 8-12" action figures now that figures as small as Joes have become hyper-articulated with lines like Mobile Suits in Action, the new Microman, and the upcoming 4" Marvel Legends.

There is no reason a franchise can't support a line of small figures and a line of larger ones. RAH did it in 1992-1994 and again in 2002-2004. Star Wars did it twice, Toy Biz did it with Famous Covers, and so forth. If Hasbro representatives start talking about 6" Joes, then it will be time to worry.

Ghost X
02-17-2005, 06:16 PM
I hear they are bringing back GI Joe, but get this . . . he is going to only be 3 3/4 inches tall and might even be a girl!

Hasbro has some crazy idea about making these tiny figures and giving them each distinct personalities and specialties, even make some female figures! When will they learn not to miss with the original idea? Don't they know we like Joe the size that he has always been for the last 20 years and isn't half the fun making up your own personality for your Joe? This new line isn't going to last one wave!

Ghost X circa February 1982 :)

Deogg
02-17-2005, 06:28 PM
All I have to say is:


Sgt. Savage
AND
G.I. Joe Extreme

Has Hasbro learned from the mistakes of the past?

More than likely not.

GI Trekker
02-17-2005, 06:41 PM
That's my main concern, too. The amount of money that Hasbro MUST put into this new scale line will be considerable. Now, maybe it'll come from what they WOULD'VE put into the 12" line, but I still think the 3-3/4" Joes are going to get short shrift this year.

Now, I was told a while back by a Hasbro representative that the 2005 line is IN PLACE, and as far ahead as toys have to be prepared I am inclined to believe that, and the only thing that could derail it is poor sales, which I don't think has been the case.

BUT -- that doesn't mean this new-scale line isn't going to get a huge push, and the 3-3/4" Joes are likely to suffer.

Best case scenario -- either the stores don't want this new scale, or it's clearance aisle bait as soon as it shows up, and vanishes from memory as quickly as possible.

Worst case scenario -- it's 1995 all over again, and Hasbro is determined to push this thing at the expense of everything else.

I won't advise panic -- yet. But I will advise concern. There's just too much potential, ESPECIALLY in the comic sets in my opinion, to let the 3-3/4" Joes get treated like this. But let's see what Toy Fair reveals.

Rotty
02-17-2005, 07:02 PM
I don't see how this could be 1995 all over again. The Kenner acquisition meant there was a motive within the company to destroy RAH. There's no comparable situation now, one would have to create a conspiracy theory that the people in charge of the GI Joe brand want to ruin it.

Is anyone willing to be that we won't see at least 5 waves of 5 sets each (50 figures in the 2-pack format) for the 1:18 scale Joes this year, plus 10-20 vehicles (not counting the little Adventure Pack ones)? Maybe the comic packs will get axed, but the TRU 6-packs will be safe this year as long as TRU wants more.

So yeah, I'd be willing to bet that we'll see at least 50 new and repainted 3 3/4" Joes this year the new line, though perhaps as few as 30 if Hasbro suddenly shifts to single-carded figures for the main waves, single-carded reissues and repaints, at least 10 Alpha/Bravo/Delta vehicles, and a few more TRU vintage 6-packs (say minimum of 3, counting the upcoming Tomax and Xamot sets as 1).

FireFox91
02-17-2005, 07:13 PM
I think a lot of people need to take a step back and realize this is just a RUMOR. Does anyone have any concrete information about any of this that can be confirmed? I didn't think so. For all we know, none of this will happen and things will continue on as is.

IF the entire 12" was canceled, I would be puzzled because there are a lot of 12" collectors out there. I understand canceling the RAH 12" figures because for the most part, they wern't very good. Cancelling the regular 12" line that contained figures with the authentic unforms just doesn't make any sense which is why I will not believe any part of this rumor until it can be confirmed.

IF they did make a RAH line in another scale, I wouldn't buy it. Nothing can top the 3-3/4" line as far as I am concerned.

rjluna
02-17-2005, 07:14 PM
Damn Ghost X, That was well said!!

yojoebro82
02-17-2005, 07:27 PM
I don't know why there is this panic that 3 3/4 is ending. .

Agreed!

The 3 3/4 line didn't end in the 90's because Hasbro was "wasting money" on the Extreme or Sgt Savage guys. I'm no business major, but I don't think Hasbro has a "GI Joe" pool of money that they can only draw a certain amount form. They're a toy company. A new Joe line probably won't effect the 3 3/4 line any more than if they decided to produce a new line of dolls or stuffed animals. If 3 3/4 keeps showing a profit, we'll probably still keep getting them.

As for the new line...who knows what it's actually going to be. Personally, I buy the 3 3/4 guys because I loved them from my child hood. Not the 12 inch guys, not whatever this new line is. If they turn out to be good toys, GREAT. If not, I won't care.

yojoebro82
02-17-2005, 07:28 PM
I hear they are bringing back GI Joe, but get this . . . he is going to only be 3 3/4 inches tall and might even be a girl!

Hasbro has some crazy idea about making these tiny figures and giving them each distinct personalities and specialties, even make some female figures! When will they learn not to miss with the original idea? Don't they know we like Joe the size that he has always been for the last 20 years and isn't half the fun making up your own personality for your Joe? This new line isn't going to last one wave!

Ghost X circa February 1982 :)


Nice.......:)

Agent Orange
02-17-2005, 07:46 PM
I think a lot of people need to take a step back and realize this is just a RUMOR. Does anyone have any concrete information about any of this that can be confirmed? I didn't think so. For all we know, none of this will happen and things will continue on as is.

Before Hitler invaded Czechoslovakia and Poland, those intentions were just rumors too.

What I'm saying is that it pays to be vigilant. If Hasbro's shareholders think they could make more money by starting a new line and axeing the 3-3/4" line, they would do it in a heartbeat.

tdutton17
02-17-2005, 07:54 PM
I would hate to see the 3' 3/4" figures be affected. I can see why they would want to make slightly larger figures though.

Agent Orange
02-17-2005, 08:44 PM
I would hate to see the 3' 3/4" figures be affected. I can see why they would want to make slightly larger figures though.


To make more money.

How's this for an idea, Hasbro? To make more money, why don't you revert to single packs (or at least package troop builders together), produce enough of the troop builders, improve your distribution, and make better vehicles (the Sting Raider, Thunderwing, Humvee, and Ice Sabre are a good start - now keep the ball rolling).

Rotty
02-17-2005, 08:50 PM
To make more money.

How's this for an idea, Hasbro? To make more money, why don't you revert to single packs (or at least package troop builders together), produce enough of the popular figures, improve your distribution, and make better vehicles (the Sting Raider, Thunderwing, Humvee, and Ice Sabre are a good start - now keep the ball rolling).

Aren't they generally already producing enough of the popular figures? I'm not aware of any shortage of Duke, Snake Eyes, Kamakura, Gung-Ho, Wild Bill, CC, or Storm Shadow.

Agent Orange
02-17-2005, 08:58 PM
Aren't they generally already producing enough of the popular figures? I'm not aware of any shortage of Duke, Snake Eyes, Kamakura, Gung-Ho, Wild Bill, CC, or Storm Shadow.


Actually, by popular figures, I mean those popular with collectors (who make up an ever-increasing proportion of Joe consumers).

i.e. troop builders.

Rotty
02-17-2005, 09:13 PM
Actually, by popular figures, I mean those popular with collectors (who make up an ever-increasing proportion of Joe consumers).

i.e. troop builders.

And if parents can't find the characters they recognize from their childhoods (i.e. Duke, Scarlett, Snake Eyes, Flint, Lady Jaye, Hawk, Roadblock, Beachhead, Lifeline, Cobra Commander, Destro, Baroness, Storm Shadow) to buy for their kids and kids can't find the characters they recognize from the animated movies?

Agent Orange
02-17-2005, 09:47 PM
And if parents can't find the characters they recognize from their childhoods (i.e. Duke, Scarlett, Snake Eyes, Flint, Lady Jaye, Hawk, Roadblock, Beachhead, Lifeline, Cobra Commander, Destro, Baroness, Storm Shadow) to buy for their kids and kids can't find the characters they recognize from the animated movies?


Not really following your sentence fragment here.

Anyway, Hasbro should continue to make the core figures, but since they are continually selling out of the popular troop builders (Cobra Infantry 6-pack, for example) it would reason to say that, if they wanted to make more money, they would produce more of these figures and make them more readily available (be it though brick-and-mortar stores, internet offers, or as mail-aways.

Ridureyu
02-17-2005, 10:58 PM
When will they learn not to miss with the original idea?


12" tall generic soldiers with kung-fu grip?

statesofeuphoria
02-18-2005, 07:55 AM
What if we're jumping the gun here and the rumored new scale is like the Star Wars Playskool line with the kid friendly accessories and big hands, feet, and dopey expressions?
I know I just described most of the new sculpt stuff, but what if it were a GI Joe Buddies line or something geared toward little kids? Those things are 6-7" tall right?
New scale doesn't automatically mean hyper detail and articulation. I prefer to wait and see since this rumor more than likely was taken out of context.

mizak23
02-18-2005, 10:04 AM
I'm really not too worried about the state of the 3 3/4 line, I firmly believe that it will remain a large part of the G.I. Joe line for continuing years.

shadeycat
02-18-2005, 10:17 AM
i think people are flipping out over nothing. Hasbro wouldnt discontinue 3 3/4 to go to another scale. They have tried it 2x already with no success.

Agent Orange
02-18-2005, 11:27 AM
i think people are flipping out over nothing. Hasbro wouldnt discontinue 3 3/4 to go to another scale. They have tried it 2x already with no success.


But this is Hasbro we are talking about.

evan511
02-18-2005, 11:33 AM
I think we need to calm done. This is only a rumor. Hasbro could very well scrap 12". Who wants molded uniforms? I don't want to see bright skin tight suits.(JUNK)An eight inch figure would be ok. We had some of our favorite joes and cobras, 12". If they can keep it real, it might give us that collect 12", also more options. The last SW movie is done! Where is a replacement?

msv
02-18-2005, 12:22 PM
I 'm sure we'll still see small figures; maybe just in a specialized market (collectors). They will make smaller production runs like convention exclusives. But Hasbro has to compete with Macfarlane and Marvel legends so they need to keep up with the times. I for one am happy with the news that we might be getting unleashed figures but I will probably only buy the Snakeyes's and the Cobra's unless they make other characters, like Recondo, in the exact pose as depicted in the 80's packaging artwork.

Deogg
02-18-2005, 12:27 PM
But this is Hasbro we are talking about.

My point exactly.

Redmao
02-18-2005, 01:06 PM
I suspect Hasbro is actually looking for a smaller scale in which to do figures with real clothing, which is the main difference between 3 3/4-7" and 8-12" action figures now that figures as small as Joes have become hyper-articulated with lines like Mobile Suits in Action, the new Microman, and the upcoming 4" Marvel Legends.

there will be a 4" marvel legend line???!!!!

sorry for the off topic

GI Trekker
02-18-2005, 01:20 PM
I don't see how this could be 1995 all over again. The Kenner acquisition meant there was a motive within the company to destroy RAH. There's no comparable situation now, one would have to create a conspiracy theory that the people in charge of the GI Joe brand want to ruin it.

Is anyone willing to be that we won't see at least 5 waves of 5 sets each (50 figures in the 2-pack format) for the 1:18 scale Joes this year, plus 10-20 vehicles (not counting the little Adventure Pack ones)? Maybe the comic packs will get axed, but the TRU 6-packs will be safe this year as long as TRU wants more.

So yeah, I'd be willing to bet that we'll see at least 50 new and repainted 3 3/4" Joes this year the new line, though perhaps as few as 30 if Hasbro suddenly shifts to single-carded figures for the main waves, single-carded reissues and repaints, at least 10 Alpha/Bravo/Delta vehicles, and a few more TRU vintage 6-packs (say minimum of 3, counting the upcoming Tomax and Xamot sets as 1).

Now, see, what you say is what has me worried. The best Joes around ARE those COMIC SETS. I don't want to see those go by the wayside because of an asinine product that's a bad idea from its inception. I realize that this is mostly rumor for now, and seems to only be bad news for 12" collectors, but I'm with Agent Orange -- we need to be vigilant against the stupidity and cluelessness of certain factions within Hasbro.

GI Trekker
02-18-2005, 01:23 PM
I 'm sure we'll still see small figures; maybe just in a specialized market (collectors). They will make smaller production runs like convention exclusives. But Hasbro has to compete with Macfarlane and Marvel legends so they need to keep up with the times. I for one am happy with the news that we might be getting unleashed figures but I will probably only buy the Snakeyes's and the Cobra's unless they make other characters, like Recondo, in the exact pose as depicted in the 80's packaging artwork.

This to me is one of the biggest problems with G.I.Joe -- the idea that it has to compete with what everyone else is doing. G.I.Joe used to be the trendSETTER. In fact, it was only when it started following other trends -- Eco-Warriors from Captain Planet, Ninja Force to try to take advantage of the popularity of a certain foursome of Turtles, that the Joes started going down the tubes in the first place. Joe does NOT have to keep up with anybody else.

JustinBarnhill
02-18-2005, 01:36 PM
hasbro does have to put out figures that kids will buy though...thats why we got ninjas in the 90s. my younger brother was a big fan of TMNT, the only joes he bought when he was a kid...yep, ninja force.

i dont' even know what toys kids buy these days. the only people i see in toy aisles are adults. :D

Rotty
02-18-2005, 02:48 PM
there will be a 4" marvel legend line???!!!!

sorry for the off topic

They were unveiled at the UK Toy Fair (no pictures were allowed). Check out:

http://www.thepunisher.com/past_news/january_2005/january_2005.html

The line-up includes Hulk & Wolverine (two-pack), Spider-Man & Ben Grimm (two-pack), Black Costume Spider-Man, Dr. Octopus, Ghost Rider, the Punisher, Captain America, Dr. Doom, Iron Man, and the Human Torch.

They're supposedly 1:18 scale (4") rather than the 1:19 scale of 3 3/4" GI Joes, but as long as you don't try to have the Punisher drive the VAMP, they should be quite compatible. :D Just imagine having Captain America and Nick Fury interacting with the Joes! Tony Stark being someone Stalker, Snake Eyes, and Tommy Arashikage met in Vietnam! Tweaking history so the BATs are based on obsolete Latverian technology sold to Cobra!

Redmao
02-18-2005, 02:49 PM
I just hope we'll know for sure what is going on. heck I'm so worried I haven't slept in the next five minutes...and I'm at work for crying out loud!

Thanks for the info Rotty

Rotty
02-18-2005, 03:20 PM
Now, see, what you say is what has me worried. The best Joes around ARE those COMIC SETS. I don't want to see those go by the wayside because of an asinine product that's a bad idea from its inception.

Well, that's one opinion. For me, the main line (JvC/ST/VvV) is the heir to the original RAH, giving us improved versions of classic characters (Cobra Commander and Dr. Mindbender being the most striking examples) and all-new characters with cool backstories (such as the Stall siblings), with advances in figure construction like we saw back in 1982 and 1985. I'll be the first to admit it had a rocky start, with problems like overlong arms and a towering, pigeon-toed Beachhead, but those are over now.

While I love the concept of the comic packs, they're tending to be a way to squeeze every last possible dollar out of already-overused vintage molds like the '82 bodies, Storm Shadow v1 and v2, Big Ben, and the Baroness. The Oktober Guard and General Flagg Sr. are fantastic (if I can find them without defects), but honestly, I'd mostly be upset for the kids if this sub-line was cancelled. Other than the metal rivets in the arms, they probably don't know that Storm Shadow v1 and Daina are fundamentally different from VvV Dr. Mindbender and Vipers, and Larry Hama's Marvel comics are the best possible way to introduce potential new fans to the mythos. Would I rather see more of these on the shelves than 6" or 8" GI Joe and Cobra characters? Of course, but I don't see it as a reason to panic.


I realize that this is mostly rumor for now, and seems to only be bad news for 12" collectors, but I'm with Agent Orange -- we need to be vigilant against the stupidity and cluelessness of certain factions within Hasbro.

As yet, there's nothing practical we can do. If official word comes out about a specific new figure scale, then we can start e-mailing Hasbro in protest. I doubt they'd take us seriously if we started protesting about something new on general principle.

flash70
02-18-2005, 03:57 PM
To speak on my previous post.

DO NOT RE-INVENT THE WHEEL.

WE DON'T NEED ANOTHER LINE OF JOES THAT ARE FROM THE 3 3/4" REAL AMERICAN HERO LINE AS 6" COPIES.

ITS NOT WORTH IT.

THE MARVEL LEGENDS IS A COLLECTORS MARKET AND IS PRETTY MUCH FILLED WITH SCALPER SCUM AND FLY-BY NIGHT E*BAY BUMS DESTROYING THE FUN OF COLLECTING.

AND FOR ALL YOU OTHERS WHO THING I AM MAD OR UPSET...

i'm not, just saying my piece so HASBRO can hear me...:D

GI Trekker
02-18-2005, 07:18 PM
One of my most reliable contacts sent me this today:

==========================

When Hasbro created the action figure category more than 40 years ago, it immediately ignited the imaginations of kids and forever changed the way boys play. Now,after 40 years, Hasbro’s G.I. JOE brand is reinventing the category it created with the introduction of G.I. JOE SIGMA SIX, a new line of action figuresf eaturing an all-new 8-inch scale and weekly, animated series to debut this September.
The initial offering of G.I. JOE SIGMA SIX action figures brings the action of this newly formed G.I. JOE covert mission force and will feature several of the most popular G.I. JOE characters including: Duke, Snake eyes, Heavy Duty, SPIRIT IRON-KNIFE and the C.O.B.R.A. ninja STORM SHADOW. Each figure will be fully articulated and will come with their signature gear, as seen on the animated series.

==================================

Now we all know full well that Hasbro's going to throw everything they've got into this. 12" is retired, and I'll be surprised to see any 3-3/4" on the shelves within a year if this garbage takes off. And I'll be hanged if I'll buy any of it.

I just hope the comic sets last long enough to maybe get the rest of Oktober Guard out (Dragonsky, Misha, Gorky), but I'm not optimistic.

Turn out the lights, this party's over... :(

Rotty
02-18-2005, 07:44 PM
One of my most reliable contacts sent me this today:

==========================

When Hasbro created the action figure category more than 40 years ago, it immediately ignited the imaginations of kids and forever changed the way boys play. Now,after 40 years, Hasbro’s G.I. JOE brand is reinventing the category it created with the introduction of G.I. JOE SIGMA SIX, a new line of action figuresf eaturing an all-new 8-inch scale and weekly, animated series to debut this September.
The initial offering of G.I. JOE SIGMA SIX action figures brings the action of this newly formed G.I. JOE covert mission force and will feature several of the most popular G.I. JOE characters including: Duke, Snake eyes, Heavy Duty, SPIRIT IRON-KNIFE and the C.O.B.R.A. ninja STORM SHADOW. Each figure will be fully articulated and will come with their signature gear, as seen on the animated series.

I knew it! The 12" Joes from the RAH Mythos had to be retired because they weren't selling well enough, so Hasbro is experimenting with the smallest action figure scale that typically uses real clothing as the secondary scale for these characters.

Now will anyone believe me when I predict that this line won't have any effect on the main 3 3/4" line or the TRU 6-packs?

As for the tie-in to an animated series in September, isn't that a couple of months after the new annual theme is set to debut? If so, it makes sense: the 12" figures were tied into the Spy Troops and Valor vs Venom themes. This must be the cel-animated weekly series Studio Gonzo was hired to do. It shouldn't come as any suprise that new versions of the A-list characters (Spirit is an A-list character now? Woohoo!) are going to match their animated counterparts, no doubt in 3 3/4" size as well if Gonzo's character designs are any different from the latest figure sculpts for General Abernathy, Duke, Snake Eyes, Spirit, Heavy Duty, Cobra Commander, Storm Shadow, etc.


Now we all know full well that Hasbro's going to throw everything they've got into this. 12" is retired, and I'll be surprised to see any 3-3/4" on the shelves within a year if this garbage takes off. And I'll be hanged if I'll buy any of it.

I just hope the comic sets last long enough to maybe get the rest of Oktober Guard out (Dragonsky, Misha, Gorky), but I'm not optimistic.

Turn out the lights, this party's over... :(

We're getting a cel-animated GI Joe series from the creators of Yukikaze and Blue Submarine No.6 and it's "Turn out the lights, this party's over"? This is the best news we've had since 2002 Wave 2! :cool:

Iron Snake
02-18-2005, 08:17 PM
Official press release. (http://www.hasbro.com/media/pl/page.release/dn/default.cfm?release=349)

GI Trekker
02-18-2005, 08:53 PM
Oh, I almost forgot to mention the best part of this. The figures will cost $14.99 apiece!

If the stupidity of the concept doesn't kill this, the price tag certainly will.

And I don't care WHO does the animation. If you're handed garbage to work with, you can't expect to make gold out of it.

Ridureyu
02-18-2005, 09:02 PM
Yeah, being handed the idea of GI joe to make acartoon out of is "total garbage."

Ridureyu
02-18-2005, 09:05 PM
What I find amusing is that, if I were from hasbro and looking at this board, I would have already cancelled the 3-3/4" line. No matter WHAT is released, people whine and complain.

"New sculpts suck! I want vintage sculpts! hasbro sucks!"

"Hasbro should stop using vintage sculpts! hasbro sucks!'

"new characters suck!"

"old characters suck!"

I'm getting really, really sick of this. These are TOYS. Doesn't ANYBODY use them to, you know, have FUN?


"there's no new cartoon! hasbro SUCKS!"

"there's a new cartoon? HASBRO SUCKS!"

"I want Marvel Legends-type figures! hasbro sucks for not making them."

"Hasbro is making Marvel legends-type figures? hasbro Sucks!"

jabba the drunk
02-18-2005, 09:25 PM
In the press release, why does Hasbro spell Cobra..

"C.O.B.R.A."

????

Are they planning on making it an acronymn now?

-Peter

Iron Snake
02-18-2005, 09:31 PM
It's always been an acronym, they just didn't write as one too often. It was given in the comic book at some point.

Ridureyu
02-18-2005, 09:33 PM
Corporately Organized Bartenders of Russian Ancestry

Deogg
02-18-2005, 09:38 PM
What I find amusing is that, if I were from hasbro and looking at this board, I would have already cancelled the 3-3/4" line. No matter WHAT is released, people whine and complain.

"New sculpts suck! I want vintage sculpts! hasbro sucks!"

"Hasbro should stop using vintage sculpts! hasbro sucks!'

"new characters suck!"

"old characters suck!"

I'm getting really, really sick of this. These are TOYS. Doesn't ANYBODY use them to, you know, have FUN?


"there's no new cartoon! hasbro SUCKS!"

"there's a new cartoon? HASBRO SUCKS!"

"I want Marvel Legends-type figures! hasbro sucks for not making them."

"Hasbro is making Marvel legends-type figures? hasbro Sucks!"

Guess what?

These figures suck even worse than the worst new sculpt figure.

Live with it.

GI Steevy
02-18-2005, 09:48 PM
Corporately Organized Bartenders of Russian Ancestry
No wonder the Dreadnoks stick with Cobra Commander :D

Ridureyu
02-18-2005, 09:48 PM
I love how you declared that they "suck" before you even saw them.

Such maturity.

Ridureyu
02-18-2005, 09:50 PM
No wonder the Dreadnoks stick with Cobra Commander :D

But hey, I heard baroness mixes a mean zombie!

(type of alcoholic beverage)

GI Trekker
02-18-2005, 10:00 PM
Just called up that "Official Press Release". Ye gods, it's worse than I thought.

And in fairness, while I would support a cartoon based on the 3-3/4" G.I.Joe concept, I will NOT support a cartoon that is designed to promote a clearly and obviously inferior product that Hasbro obviously intends to SUPPLANT that product, even if the core concept is the same. It's the product, not the concept, that bothers me, and I think based on the postings in this thread, bothers most of us.

Rotty
02-18-2005, 10:04 PM
Guess what?

These figures suck even worse than the worst new sculpt figure.

Live with it.

Actually, Storm Shadow, the only one for which an image has been released, looks great! That's a good thing too, because it's stated to be how he'll look in Studio GONZO's GI Joe anime, the one that will probably add hundreds of thousands of new kids to the ranks of GI Joe collectors. If it's well-written, it will also undoubtably bring back to the fold some of the 20-somethings who haven't bought a GI Joe figure since they were 12, and young women who haven't been involved with GI Joe since the Sunbow cartoon went off the air while they were in Elementary school.

Live with it.

GI Trekker
02-18-2005, 10:06 PM
Guess what?

These figures suck even worse than the worst new sculpt figure.

Live with it.

Yep, gotta agree with that after seeing that Storm Shadow.

sinnister
02-18-2005, 10:07 PM
I dont see myself getting any of them. Not that I think they will suck or rock. My Joe room is only so big so I limit myself to the 3 3/4 line. I see a lot of the 12" that I'd really like to have but I have to draw the line somewhere! If I didnt...they would spill into the bedroom, living room, bathroom, kitchen....then the only use for them would be as paperweights for the divorce papers my wife would give me!

Ridureyu
02-18-2005, 10:07 PM
Can anybody here explain to me why it's impossible for hasbro to support more than one line with the same characters? You know, like it did with the 12" figures, or like how there are about five Star wars lines with exactly the same guys? (even the animated figures, which don't seem to be selling as well as the regular ones).

Iron Snake
02-18-2005, 10:11 PM
I'm pretty much going to stay out of this squabble but, Star Wars has a MUCH, MUCH, bigger fan base and the 12" RAH line tanked. So maybe that's why some people think what they do.

Ridureyu
02-18-2005, 10:16 PM
Yes, but how many years did the two coexist without a problem? 12" is only being cancelled because it didn't sell at all - and I can verify that. In all the stores around me, the smaller figures sold well over twice as much as the larger ones.

DacaZ
02-18-2005, 10:21 PM
I dont see myself getting any of them. Not that I think they will suck or rock. My Joe room is only so big so I limit myself to the 3 3/4 line. I see a lot of the 12" that I'd really like to have but I have to draw the line somewhere!

I'm in the same mindset. I love a lot of the 1:6 scale Joes, but they just have no place in my collection. The only one I own is the Cobra Viper because he was just too cool to pass up, and even he just sits on a shelf in the corner all by his lonesome.

Another problem is I really need vehicles for my figures. It's that interactivity with the vehicles that I like most, mainly because that's how I display them. I can't see how vehicles will fit into the larger scale. I realize that there have been a few impressive vehicles for 1:6 scale figures, but they're too expensive and take up too much room. I'm just trying to imagine what a decent tank would look like for these new figures in terms of size.

I could see myself buying one or two figures in this new line (i.e. like a Cobra Commander or Destro) if they looked really nice, but I really don't want to sink a lot of money into figures that aren't in scale with my existing collection. I'm not trying to berate the line before I've even seen it, I'm just saying I can't afford the money or space to devote to a separately scaled Joe series.

Rotty
02-18-2005, 10:22 PM
And in fairness, while I would support a cartoon based on the 3-3/4" G.I.Joe concept, I will NOT support a cartoon that is designed to promote a clearly and obviously inferior product that Hasbro obviously intends to SUPPLANT that product, even if the core concept is the same. It's the product, not the concept, that bothers me, and I think based on the postings in this thread, bothers most of us.

GI Trekker, please reread the press release. The MSRP on these 8" figures is $14.99, the cost of four 3 3/4" GI Joes and suspiciously similar to that of the RAH-mythos 12" figures. No toy company is going to eliminate the small-scale (3 3/4"-6") action figures of a successful franchise. Figures in this size range are the bread and butter of every successful mass-market action figure line except the original GI Joes (the generic military personnel with interchangeable uniforms). A secondary range of 8"-12" figures is a sign of major commercial success. Did Hasbro cancel the RAH line by the end of 1992 to promote the Hall of Fame? Did Playmates cancel its 5" Star Trek figures when it introduced the 9" line? Did Toy Biz cancel its small figures when it introduced the Famous Covers line?

Joeczar
02-18-2005, 10:28 PM
Here' my stand, like it or not, it's mine. I was born in 1968, the first GI Joe I got was an Advernture Team Land Adventurer for Christmas 1973. I soon had Land, Sea, and Air Adventurers, the Talking Commander, Atomic Man, and even Bullet Man (Hey, he was one of my favorites). The 1976 came and the 12 inch Joes faded away. They were all boxed up and forgotten, largely in part to Star Wars.

Forward to 1982. Sitting in class, I see an article in either Time or Newsweek heralding the return of GI Joe in a 3 3/4 inch format. I was excited and couldn't wait until they hit the shelves. When they did, Short Fuze and Snake Eyes became the first of hundreds I bought up until the line was cancelled in 1994.

Forward again to 1991. Target and Hasbro reintroduce the 12 Joe in the form of Duke. Ok, he had wimpy hands and little articulation and was a showdow of Joe's 21 points of articluated glory, but he was a 12 inch Joe, and at age 23 I was hooked again. When the Classic Collection came out in 1996, I bought them all.

Forward yet again to 2002. I attend the GI Joe convention in Norfolk as a 12 inch collector, and the RAH bug bit me again. Maybe it had something to do with catching a paratrooper Dusty in a shoebox after he took a 10 story dive off the hotel without his parachute, but either way I was into RAH again, and now I probably own twice as many Joes as I did ten years ago.

My point to all this? All my life, the only scale of GI Joes that ever mattered or will matter to me will be the 12 & 3 3/4 inch versions. Each one has strengths the other one doesn't. 12 Joes represent the nameless grunt that makes up the military while the RAH line has diverse and unique characters, ones I've pretty much grown up with. That not to say Hasbro has not tried different scales before: Super Joe, Sgt. Savage, and GI Joe Extreme, have all come and gone, and I could care less. I did pick some up, though, for 75% off, which was the most I was willing to pay.

I'm not going to say that Hasbro sucks for rolling out a new scale of Joes, I will let my wallet do the talking, or not talking as the case may be. If the 3 3/4 inch line goes, so will I, I just won't have any emotional attachment to the 8 inch line.

By the way, I have 5yr old son and another on the way, who knows, maybe the 8 inch line will be their favorites.

thoughtcrime
02-18-2005, 10:30 PM
I'm inclined to think that this line will exist alongside the 3 3/4 line much as Star Wars exists with SW Unleashed, and TF Universe exists with Energon, etc. Hasbro seems to enjoy pumping out multiple lines for the same product. All should be revealed Sunday.

But I have to say that Storm Shadow looks like **** and at $15 a pop, NO kid is gonna "collect them all". Clearance bin all the way.

Arashikage_Tengu
02-18-2005, 10:36 PM
Don't know if it's just me, I know it's hard to tell with such a small pic of Storm Shadow, but it doesn't look like there are any joints at the elbows and knees. It's possible that the pants are made of cloth, thus, covering any knee joints that might be present.
I've never been crazy for anime style toys. I collect Star Wars figures, but have passed on the figures based on the Cartoon Network Clone Wars cartoon.
If Hasbro has any hope of getting collectors,with my particular taste, to buy these, the figures better have more points of articulation than what currently comes on the 3 3/4" scale.

Rotty
02-18-2005, 10:39 PM
For me, GI Joe means 3 3/4" figures. That's what I grew up with, that's what started collecting again in my late teens, and it's the only scale at which I can build military units, equip them with realistic vehicles, and set them up in dioramas where they're not packed as closely together as if it's the Napoleonic Wars. Maybe if I'd been living in a house with a 1200 sq foot one-room basement when the 12" Joes were reintroduced I'd feel differently. I wasn't, though, and I don't collect them. I don't collect 8" action figures either, so the only way I can see buying even a single one of these is if the animated series is scripted by one of the great anime creators and so the storytelling is so fantastic I want to have the main characters in both scales. If that happens, they'll get displayed on a shelf while I'm creating dioramas with my 3 3/4" platoons and collection of vehicles...

Ridureyu
02-18-2005, 10:40 PM
Hey... here's a strange thought. has anybody tried gigantic O-Ring figures before? I'm wondering how the rubber would hold up.

flash70
02-18-2005, 11:19 PM
oK,

My third point of view...first a little history...

I grew with joes since the 70s played with the original joes and they were really cool. The 80s came upon fast and I was jumping because of the small size of joe, cool figures, great vehicles, and great theme...G.I.JOE had a great villian to fight COBRA!!!!! I had everything that came out and started to cry when the boring sgt. savage and dumb extreme figures came out (no offense to fans of those lines) but joe went into the abyss and I was starting college. So with great pain I had to sell my huge collection...boy I was upset but hey it was for a good cause. Then the real american hero came out around 2000 and I was excited again finishing up school I came into a great job with great pay and starting collecting again and with a few good lots on e*bay I had most of my collection back. It was a great time and Hasbro has given us fans a cool bunch of figures. However, now I guess they have to re-invent things cause they want that power rangers, turtle, marvel legends, mid-size market ...oh and those half-dozen fanboys at last years convention who were slap happy to get mid-size figures(thanks alot guys... ya bums). So we get this new line-up which looks to be made for the tween (thats what industry types call children from 7-12) market. Well Hasbro enjoy wasting the peg space...thanks. :(

buckwheat826
02-19-2005, 12:28 AM
I can see the approach Hasbro is taking. New cartoon..new toys. They might figure that the youngsters will dig epic characters with a playablilty like the Spidermans. But us old timers appreciate the small scale for our complex purposes (dios, collections, customs, etc).

I'm confident (THEY'D BETTER!!!) Hasbro will cater to both markets. I'd think the will definitely continue with our 3.75s because this market already exists very strongly but the Sigmas are unchartered waters.

Curious as to what the 'toon will look like. Hope they use good artists. If they don't...good luck because I don't know about the rest of yous but in my day, I was half sold on kick butt animation.

ie.
-Robotech
-Voltron
-Mask
-Thundercats and

blah, blah, blah.

Deogg
02-19-2005, 02:42 AM
http://mastercollector.com/neat/toyfair05/hasbro/Spirit.jpg

These things make the worst of the new sculpts look downright perfection.

Redmao
02-19-2005, 07:36 AM
so let me get this straight: hasbro is cancelling the RAH 12" line but not the regular 12" line, is that right or are they cancelling all their 12" figures?

So...new cartoon, new scale, new fans. Kids will probably be back to joe after this..just not like us. That Sigma 6 thing seems to me like its only a small bunch of joes versus cobra.

I want to see the new show. I'm curious about it. We'll see.

Big Iron
02-19-2005, 08:46 AM
Wow, I think you could take dog droppings and give it accessories and I'd be more inclined to buy it....

Figures based on the contemporary LAZY Animation stylings just aren't my thing.

Glad everybody wanted Marvel Legends type figures...congrats you got Hasbro's version. That will teach you.

The only good thing I can see is that maybe they can play the "re-invent" game with these figures and go back to the RAH style sculpts for the 3 3/4 line.

Just my opinion. If you want these things, then you can rest assured there won't be another collector trying to get them.

and also, since when is Heavy Duty a "Most Popular" character? I realize you have to have diversity (Joe was way ahead of it's time in the 80's with that), but I can think of SEVERAL other African American Joes that are more popular.

Obiwanjacoby
02-19-2005, 12:15 PM
Figures based on the contemporary LAZY Animation stylings just aren't my thing.

Like I said in the other thread. I wanted Anime style Joes. I mean I really wanted 'em. But not this style of Anime! :mad:

I can hardly tolerate the contemporary anime style. "Lazy Anime style" is exactly the term I was looking for.


Glad everybody wanted Marvel Legends type figures...congrats you got Hasbro's version. That will teach you.


And a hard lesson it is, at that. Hasbro's like the old "genie of the lamp" stories. . .they deliver what you want, but always with a fatal twist that you didn't explicitly ask for. :rolleyes:

-PJ

whitedalek
02-19-2005, 04:46 PM
Say goodnight, Gracie......

CGC
02-19-2005, 08:10 PM
I'm not too impressed, so I just won't spend any money on that line, it's simple. Well, maybe not, if their BATS are better than the rest of their new line, I could probably work a couple of them into my Joe-verse. People don't grow to 10', but if your building them, why not? :D

statesofeuphoria
02-20-2005, 09:16 AM
Does the phrase "turd in a punch bowl" mean anything?
These things will fly like the Hindenberg.

blackdragon
02-20-2005, 05:32 PM
i'd buy them if they're at a reasonable price. But if hasbro does away with 3 3/4 line or doesn't produce them as much, i'm gonna really know how stupid toy company people really are.

i retract my previous statement, i just saw more pics of these figures and i will not be buying them. i think they look horrible. Well i retract half my statement, i now really do know how stupid toy company people really are!!!

Nemesis666
02-20-2005, 06:14 PM
I sense a disturbance in the Force....

But maybe this could be our dream come true. Sigma thing for the kids... and a collector oriented 3 3/4. What could be better?

But if they actually cancelled 12", I am sorry for those collectors....

History will tell...

flash70
02-20-2005, 06:31 PM
thats all folks.....:D

Agent Orange
02-22-2005, 07:30 PM
Let's not kid ourselves, folks...
The 3-3/4" line is dead.

Just as dead as it was at the end of the 1994 run.

"Hiatus" is Hasbro talk for DEAD.

When the Sigma Six 8" line fails (and it WILL fail - witness Super-Joe, GIJoe Extreme, and Sgt.Savage), it will be a LONG time before we see any 3-3/4" figures. If ever.

I hate to say it folks, but "I told you so."

masteratarms2ndclass
02-23-2005, 06:08 PM
Right on! The end of new sculpt garbage! Of course it is being replaced with garbage of a whole new order.

Hopefully this will scare off enough "collectors" to make original 82-94 prices fall for awhile, easing the financial pain of collecting and troop-building the originals.

btw, hope Hasbro has the sense to keep up the comic packs and tru packs...

And, did you guys see the Diamond Select stuff? Wow. Now that is quality.

Rotty
02-23-2005, 06:21 PM
Right on! The end of new sculpt garbage! Of course it is being replaced with garbage of a whole new order. ... btw, hope Hasbro has the sense to keep up the comic packs and tru packs...

Nnnn... in good times and in bad, the adult fans remain divided.