Ask yourself before bidding on a MOC Cobra Mortal [Archive] - YoJoe.com Forums

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Ron Conner - Treasures 'N Toys
04-17-2005, 04:25 PM
There is an auction currently running that is advertising a "COBRA MORTAL .... MOC ..... G.I.JOE !!!!!!! " I own a loose, complete Cobra Mortal and I was thinking about bidding initially, but I am not after I asked myself these questions.
1) Why is there missing artwork along the left edge of the bubble. Like missing some Mortal forearm artwork, and parts of his hands. There is yellow card ink, but could it be a resealed card?
2) Why does the figure have a black right hand. All I have ever seen was a full red (unpainted) hand. Could it have a reglued hand at the wrist from an Invasor since thumbs break easily?
3) Why is the chrome so dull? Shouldn't it be "mirror-like"?
4) Why is there no black paint triangles above the eyes?
5) Why does there appear to only be one weapon in the package. It should come with 3 accessories : cross bow, Uzi and "explosive pack". (I think Yojoe.com needs updating on the accessories listing).
I am not saying that it is a fake, because I don't want to dog on anyone's items. Besides, the back card looks legit, and the so does the plastic the figure is made out of (red). So it could be all legit. All I am saying is that one should ask themselves if such an item COULD have been fixed up/customized to look carded with some paint, glue and a lot of time. Anyway, good luck whoever wins. Be sure to let us know about it's authenticity after you get it in the mail.

God Bless and Yo Joe,
Ron Conner
G.I. Joe Author of 3 Books @ http://www.backinthedaytoys.com/bitdt.htm
G.I. Joe Dealer @ http://www.treasuresntoys.com/gijoe334.htm
G.I. Joe Fan Site Webmaster @ http://www.treasuresntoys.com/webcamp.htm

the scarecrow
04-17-2005, 04:33 PM
Wow, that auction's going for mucho dinero. Have you emailed the seller with those questions?


http://yojoe.com/action/int/arg-cobramortal.shtml

Snake-eyes01
04-17-2005, 04:43 PM
I'd say it's been poorly re-sealed due to the card errors along the bubble. I'd also say it's a fake or re-touched up figure as well.

SnakeStorm
04-17-2005, 05:15 PM
This Mortal is so different than all the other ones I have ever seen. Therefore, I would say it probably is a fake.

Navajo
04-17-2005, 05:16 PM
Hey take a look at the back of the card in the auction, then look at the cardback that's in the yojoe archives. Could just be a coincidence but look at the flag at the end of the big GIJOE on the auction, see the colour stain going down? Now look at the scan of the one on Yojoe...it almost looks like it's got the same stain. Also the specks on the actual file card look the same, now I know this don't mean much but it is kinda fishy. Look at the end of the first line that ends with "ya" those 2 flecks are in both. And look at the bottom left corner about an inch up, both have white flecks missing. Same with the front, look at the E in GIJOE, both have a black speck in the same spot. Oh well, like you said use your judgement. I think it's way too fishy.

ken

Stungun
04-17-2005, 06:23 PM
I thought you were doing a Clint Eastwood impression for a sec -

Ask yourself before bidding on a MOC Cobra Mortal...Do you feel lucky, punk? :D

Looks fake to me, not that I have one, but I've looked at alot of pics and wished that I did.

scwv
04-17-2005, 06:30 PM
me and nova were talking about this auction last night and i mentioned the same thing, the arm near the bubble is missing exactly what the cardback on yojoe and my site are missing (i received the images from mike livanos who owns the cardback and it is the same cardback on yojoe.). i think its just a bootleg card made off that fullcard with touch ups. also if u look at the side shot the cardboard is nice and clean which most people know even the best conditioned argentina cardback is not that clean. there is another weapon in there a destro gun though kinda hard to tell unless u enlarge the pic.

Patrick A. Riley
04-17-2005, 07:35 PM
What does everyone think the reserve price for this is?

jabba the drunk
04-17-2005, 09:59 PM
me and nova were talking about this auction last night and i mentioned the same thing, the arm near the bubble is missing exactly what the cardback on yojoe and my site are missing (i received the images from mike livanos who owns the cardback and it is the same cardback on yojoe.). i think its just a bootleg card made off that fullcard with touch ups. also if u look at the side shot the cardboard is nice and clean which most people know even the best conditioned argentina cardback is not that clean. there is another weapon in there a destro gun though kinda hard to tell unless u enlarge the pic.

Wow...great call! This totally is a fake, and the cardback is definitely the same one shown on Yojoe. As scwv mentioned, you can really see it plainly if you enlarge the pic in the auction and compare it to the one on Yojoe.

So, whichever Yojoe admin or archivist is reading this first...take down that large Cobra Mortal pic and throw some watermarks on it pronto! I'd hate to see more scammers take advantage of people like in this auction. Because of the rarity of a MOC Cobra Mortal, alot of people won't know what to look for, etc. Heck, if hadn't read this thread, I'd probably have casually thought it was real (assuming at least one of the bidders throwing money at it would have done their homework...)

Anyway, thanks for bringing this up Ron. And again, great catch scwv.

-Peter

thorn
04-17-2005, 10:03 PM
if you guys really think it is fake- i feel it is your responsibility to the community to report it to ebay, and send the guy a nasty email.
somebody who knows, please do so!!!

dockingbay97
04-17-2005, 10:08 PM
If you compare the backside of the cards, you can see the same discoloring in the red, white blue stripes at the top.

And there is the same imperfection specks on the filecard.

Both have a speck in the white border on the upper right as well.

It is definetly a copy.

Satan
04-17-2005, 10:19 PM
Way Fake... I saw this post, and went to look it up on Ebay. Not only is the chrome dull, it's not even chrome, it's silver paint, a nicely done paint job, but I have never heard of any Mortal Figures that weren't chrome. A nice custom, but obviously a scam. I seriously doubt the bids are legit on this item, anyone who's spending $2000+ on such an item, surely knows what a real mortal should look like. And comparing the card, it does look similar to the one posted in the archives, you can see similarities, but it looks like the seller touched it up.

The Faceless Master
04-17-2005, 10:20 PM
SACRE BLEU!!! I see it too!! :eek:

If you enlarge the pic of cardback from the yojoe archives, you can see that
the E of GIJOE has two yellow spots:
1> on the top right corner of the E
2> on the left side of the E just between the middle & the lower bar of the E

ALSO, the White & Blue Stripes after the word GIJOE have yellowing near the E

all of these MATCH this Cobra Mortal Auction!! Oh man, poor guy whoever is
gonna "win" this auction.

jabba the drunk
04-17-2005, 10:55 PM
I seriously doubt the bids are legit on this item, anyone who's spending $2000+ on such an item, surely knows what a real mortal should look like.

I also would have thought that people bidding on such an item, would have known "better". But, without knowing that cardback is the one shown on Yojoe, I'd think it'd be a bit tougher to diagnose that it's not real.

I agree completely about the silver being paint, too. That was the first thing I noticed. But...because of the selection of pictures shown, I can understand if people think it might be chrome. It does look like it possibly "could" be chrome, but I would have been requesting additional, close-up pictures to check this.

There are a few recognizeable names bidding on this, from this board. They may have simply been placing bids in, to mark an item. Then leaving a bit of time to do reseach on the piece. But again, I do think it is an item that can make one "lose one's head", in hopes it's the real thing. I can understand people getting excited over seeing an item like this appear, and jumping the gun in the excitement.

-Peter

Pete The Greek
04-17-2005, 11:55 PM
I have a Cobra Mortal with most of the fullcard. Unless this a variant, I am 100% sure that figure is a custom and the card is a fake.

-The dull grey paint colour on the figure is a dead give away. Where is the blue and black paint on the front of the head?

-There is no way that the Mortal has a black right hand. If so, they would have been specks of black paint wear noted on other Mortals that I have seen online. My figure doesn't exhibit any of these characteristics.

-the carded item on ebay is too glossy (The fullcard I have and the yojoe.com picture are both dull). Thus the card is fake.

-The Cobra logo on the figure doesn't match the logo size that my figure has (it's too big on the auction).

-The figure comes with three accessories as stated on the filecard in Portuguese. It looks like only two in that auction and one of them doesn't look like the standard Snake Eyes uzi.

Too many things here that don't add up.

airedevon
04-17-2005, 11:55 PM
When I first saw the Mortal figure, I immediately knew it was a fake, (there seem to be several Mortal fakes showing up) and several of us exchanged emails this morning discussing it - However, I placed a bid because of the cardback - I did not realize immediately that it, too, was a fake... (I thought to myself "how cool would that be to get a Mortal cardback with bubble!! :-)

Ron is defintely right that we should all ask ourselves many questions before placing bids on high end, rare items like this -

In addition to the questions he suggested, another would be to check the cobra logo for any "krinkliness" (uneven surface at very close scrutiny) - as that is the telltale sign of the logo having been made with a stamp.. That is not the case with the Mortal up for auction now, but it has been seen on other Mortals...

The Mortal that ended a couple of weeks ago, I think was also deserving of several questions... (The logo did not appear to be made with a stamp, however there were other signs that raised flags...)

I guess "caution" is the best word...

Thanks to everyone for this candid discussion!
Aire

thorn
04-18-2005, 01:14 AM
excelletn, that should stragihten this out, thanks!

bigjohnwoo
04-18-2005, 02:21 AM
I didn't bother doing my homework when placing my bid cause I figured that $800 would be a tenth of its closing price. I just wanted it on my myebay page to track it for curiosity's sake.

Looking at it now for more than 2 seconds, I completely agree its not authentic.

Considering the aggression with which this fraud is being 'outed' (kudos), I'm going to retract my bid just in case others pull out and the seller exercises a 'end listing early/sell to high bidder' and I'm faced with an unnecessary negative feedback...

Stungun
04-18-2005, 05:25 AM
Leave "Item is fake" as your reason for retraction and noboby'll bid on this thing.

Patrick A. Riley
04-18-2005, 09:36 AM
I didn't bother doing my homework when placing my bid cause I figured that $800 would be a tenth of its closing price. I just wanted it on my myebay page to track it for curiosity's sake.

If you wanted to track it, why didn't you just click the "Watch this item" link like I did? ;) :p

Eric Bates
04-18-2005, 09:48 AM
This figure is a fake, beyond a shadow of a doubt. The individual that copied this fugure should be prosicuted for two things. 1) A poor representation of the cobra mortal and card. 2) Trying to scam gijoe enthusiasts, and opening up the door for more scammers.

Eric Bates
04-18-2005, 10:05 AM
Heres one more thing to add to Rons statement. There is no ID number on the card shown on ebay. The pic on yojoe shows 641--- in the lower right side. The one on ebay does NOT.

ubasst
04-18-2005, 10:06 AM
i was in the hospital for 4 days when i got home i wanted to see if there were any snake eyes mocs for auction i saw this cobra mortal up i went out of my mind.so i bid 2 grand on it. 2 days pass after all the morphine i was injecting myself with and the person that sent me the email to tell me its a fake.i looked back on this and i am now taking back my bid so i dont get stuck with it..i would like to thank this forum and for the person who sent me the email to pat yourself on your back i thanku very much. sorry for the sloppy post but im still messed up from the morphine.thanku again

dockingbay97
04-18-2005, 12:11 PM
I am moving this over to the international section and sticky'ing it for awhile so everyone can see it.

bigjohnwoo
04-18-2005, 02:52 PM
If you wanted to track it, why didn't you just click the "Watch this item" link like I did? ;) :p

My system is I bid if I'm mildly interested, and I "watch the item" if I am incredibly interested. That way I don't drive up the price of things I want, and I'm not wading through a sea of watched items on myebay page.

Satan
04-18-2005, 03:25 PM
The seller has ended the auction, item no longer available for sale.

Ron Conner - Treasures 'N Toys
04-18-2005, 05:08 PM
Nice to see the auction down. Good job guys and gals! Glad everyone agreed about this carded mortal being bogus. That should keep outsiders from coming into the community trying to push their bogus stuff. Although it does make me wonder if ever a real carded one came up, would we think it is too good to be true and assume it must be fake. Imagine if rare stuff like the original art for the Mortal showed up. I know there is ultra rare stuff out there in people's collection that people are afraid to show for one reason or another. The main reason they tell me is because they are afraid of getting flamed in a post. I guess because sometimes an honest collector comes up with legit variation, but the owner gets hammered by new/uneducated people who cry it's fake. Does anyone feel the same way, holding back info or a legit rare variation because it looks too cool to be true? I myself have held a few things back because I don't know anyone else that has one. So it ends up being my word against everyone else. It is kinda hard to prove 100% if the item is one of a kind. Nothing to match and compare. Does that make sense or does anyone feel the same way?
God Bless and Yo Joe,
Ron Conner
G.I. Joe Book Author @ http://www.backinthedaytoys.com
G.I. Joe Toy Dealer @ http://www.treasuresntoys.com/gijoe334.htm
G.I. Joe Fan Site Webmaster @ http://www.treasuresntoys.com/webcamp.htm

lamanoamiga
04-18-2005, 05:53 PM
Nice to see the auction down. Good job guys and gals! Glad everyone agreed about this carded mortal being bogus. That should keep outsiders from coming into the community trying to push their bogus stuff. Although it does make me wonder if ever a real carded one came up, would we think it is too good to be true and assume it must be fake. Imagine if rare stuff like the original art for the Mortal showed up. I know there is ultra rare stuff out there in people's collection that people are afraid to show for one reason or another. The main reason they tell me is because they are afraid of getting flamed in a post. I guess because sometimes an honest collector comes up with legit variation, but the owner gets hammered by new/uneducated people who cry it's fake. Does anyone feel the same way, holding back info or a legit rare variation because it looks too cool to be true? I myself have held a few things back because I don't know anyone else that has one. So it ends up being my word against everyone else. It is kinda hard to prove 100% if the item is one of a kind. Nothing to match and compare. Does that make sense or does anyone feel the same way?
God Bless and Yo Joe,
Ron Conner
G.I. Joe Book Author @ http://www.backinthedaytoys.com
G.I. Joe Toy Dealer @ http://www.treasuresntoys.com/gijoe334.htm
G.I. Joe Fan Site Webmaster @ http://www.treasuresntoys.com/webcamp.htm


Yes Ron I had that feeling when I came across the first Mortal w/symbol, I was actually flamed by a couple of collectors when I post him, I was lucky later to find a second sample to back it up, and a depicted mortal w/symbol on a magazine. I wonder if that people keep saying mortal w/symbols are untrue. However I admitt there appeared a couple more w/symbols from one momment to the other, funny thing, where in all these years never appeared.. I dont know if those were fakes, didnt saw those samples but a certain thing is, people WILL TRY to scamm after they see a hot ticket item. For example after my 2nd mortal w/symbol auction ended a guy registered in Canada sent '2nd chance offers' to all the bidders in hope for a cash-and-run. Just keep an eye open on these kind of stuff.

I have my other pride 'n joy item; http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5940932707&ssPageName=ADME:B:EOAS:US:3 . This is the mortal counterpart for the MOTU collectors (3,500 final price). I am aware of ex TopToys employees faking this figure in a little workshop, using genuine matrices, and they made really good looking ones , however VERY GOOD looking ones!!. So maybe ''if it looks too good for 20 years old, its probably a fake"... This post was very positive b/c it resulted in the end of that auction, however we'll never know if ebay or the seller shut it down. He'll probably try to sell outside for a few bucks, we couldnt do much there.

Have a nice day
Matias

THEBIGCOLLECTOR
04-18-2005, 06:31 PM
i donīt know .... i never see one in MOC condition ... there exist ? someone have one in MOC condition ? ... please tell me !!!!

THEBIGCOLLECTOR
04-18-2005, 08:14 PM
Yes Ron I had that feeling when I came across the first Mortal w/symbol, I was actually flamed by a couple of collectors when I post him, I was lucky later to find a second sample to back it up, and a depicted mortal w/symbol on a magazine. I wonder if that people keep saying mortal w/symbols are untrue. However I admitt there appeared a couple more w/symbols from one momment to the other, funny thing, where in all these years never appeared.. I dont know if those were fakes, didnt saw those samples but a certain thing is, people WILL TRY to scamm after they see a hot ticket item. For example after my 2nd mortal w/symbol auction ended a guy registered in Canada sent '2nd chance offers' to all the bidders in hope for a cash-and-run. Just keep an eye open on these kind of stuff.

I have my other pride 'n joy item; http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5940932707&ssPageName=ADME:B:EOAS:US:3 . This is the mortal counterpart for the MOTU collectors (3,500 final price). I am aware of ex TopToys employees faking this figure in a little workshop, using genuine matrices, and they made really good looking ones , however VERY GOOD looking ones!!. So maybe ''if it looks too good for 20 years old, its probably a fake"... This post was very positive b/c it resulted in the end of that auction, however we'll never know if ebay or the seller shut it down. He'll probably try to sell outside for a few bucks, we couldnt do much there.

Have a nice day
Matias

This MOTU is real ??? ... clips on the blister ??? ... 3500 ... are you crazy or only drink paint on the morning ? .... please .... this guy show like a good seller but i follow yours feedback for long time ago on ebay and i discover very rare items at highly prices !!! ...

skywalters
04-18-2005, 09:46 PM
To think that someone would go through all the trouble to fake this thing out, and forget to clone out the specs...laughable really. Makes you wonder if anything this seller lists is legit or not. This guy should not be allowed to sell on ebay anymore. Period.

Another note...I don't think we should bag on those who bid on this. With all those thumbnails (side views, etc.) it would be easy to get excited and throw some dough at this thing. And to some people, a couple grand isn't that big a deal (I'm not one of those people by the way). :) Even after reading this post, I had to compare both images just to make sure for myself.

I'll just say thanks to Ron, Navajo, swvc and everyone for helping to get this thing cancelled. Now how do we get this guy off ebay?

Begs the question though...what would a REAL Cobra Mortal MOC go for???

THEBIGCOLLECTOR
04-18-2005, 10:04 PM
I thnik , that place its using for some people to make big deals ... i donīt know ... im new ... someone can tell me any impression ? of this .

lamanoamiga
04-18-2005, 11:16 PM
This MOTU is real ??? ... clips on the blister ??? ... 3500 ... are you crazy or only drink paint on the morning ? .... please .... this guy show like a good seller but i follow yours feedback for long time ago on ebay and i discover very rare items at highly prices !!! ...

Hey you see clips on the card? Oh my, I forgot to take 'em off while making the fake. Luckily nobody noticed lol.

Who is this guy? Give me a break!

[ you say you are new, please show respect before you open your mouth to bash the posters]

Matias

red25thta
04-19-2005, 10:24 AM
Hey you see clips on the card? Oh my, I forgot to take 'em off while making the fake. Luckily nobody noticed lol.

Who is this guy? Give me a break!

[ you say you are new, please show respect before you open your mouth to bash the posters]

Matias
LOL, Hey I did have a question and maybe I missed it in an earlier post. But why were the clips on there?

lamanoamiga
04-19-2005, 11:08 AM
LOL, Hey I did have a question and maybe I missed it in an earlier post. But why were the clips on there?

The owner kept it like that and I sold the item in same conditions the owner sold it to me. Some part of the bubble was not attached and the bottom part was still originally-glued to the card. I didnt really wanted to mess or touch too much such item so I leave it as is. I didnt wanted to even look at that card lol

red25thta
04-20-2005, 05:11 PM
The owner kept it like that and I sold the item in same conditions the owner sold it to me. Some part of the bubble was not attached and the bottom part was still originally-glued to the card. I didnt really wanted to mess or touch too much such item so I leave it as is. I didnt wanted to even look at that card lol
LoL. OK gotcha. Just was wondering (G)

YELSEW
03-26-2007, 01:24 PM
My system is I bid if I'm mildly interested, and I "watch the item" if I am incredibly interested. That way I don't drive up the price of things I want, and I'm not wading through a sea of watched items on myebay page.

That is what I too and I find myself buying less, because I forget about the watch list.