A new cardback archive may become a reality so I would like to know how everyone would like it to be set up. I have already emailed several cardback collectors for their input and now is your chance as well. This archive would probably be set up similar to the filecards section and links would be provided in the corresponding action figures description to the cardback.

On the left side it will have the individual year listing (like the filecards) but which variations do you think warrant their own categories? Also, I am assuming most people want front and back scans so how much of an issue is a serious bubble-damaged front? Obviously we would want to have the best possible specimens but at first we have to fill the empty shell.

Questions I would like to have answered:

Do any cardbacks after 1994 need to be in there? Just wondering because the newer cards don't lend themselves to be as collectible where cardbacks are concerned in my opinion. The new mail-order figures would probably be good to have in there due to the style of packaging--what do you think?


So far I would like to have a section for "Explosion Backs" and a section for "Redbacks" but which other variations would you like to see in separate categories?


Does anyone have a complete list of the different types of variations? That would help immensely and make it easier for me to get it set up.


In the past I have asked for input from members and gotten next to no responses. If you truly want this to become a reality please let me know what you want because this is ultimately for YOU.

Dan

Personally, I'd like to have post-94 cardbacks included as well. I know it adds a substantial amount of work to the initial project, but it also prevents several entries having to be added at a later date when they eventually get requested.

If you need help gathering scans, I'd be more than willing to provide you with any I come across. I've just recently re-started collecting and I doubt I have any at all of my of childhood collection, but I am picking up what I can from the new stuff as my budget allows.

From henceforth, I think I will begin taking pics of all my acquisitions (or scanning directly as needed) as I come by them for archive submission, before I actually open anything.

Do any cardbacks after 1994 need to be in there? Just wondering because the newer cards don't lend themselves to be as collectible where cardbacks are concerned in my opinion. The new mail-order figures would probably be good to have in there due to the style of packaging--what do you think?
Just to be thorough, they probably should be, but it could probably be a lower priority.

So far I would like to have a section for "Explosion Backs" and a section for "Redbacks" but which other variations would you like to see in separate categories?

Does anyone have a complete list of the different types of variations? That would help immensely and make it easier for me to get it set up.
As an opener with a memory that goes back almost as far as breakfast, without looking it up, I can't say what types of cardbacks there were. :o

As far as the setup, I think that following the style of the filecards should work very well. As far as bubble-damged fronts, if that's all that is available, go with it. I have several space fillers in my collection. They are certainly better than nothing, & can be updated when an improvement is available.

The fullbacks I have are of no help. They are Canadian versions.

I agree wih the comments of anything after 1994 would be low on the priority.

The Canadian cardbacks would be nice to have listed as variants, of course, that makes a lot more work, as it opens all foreign (non-U.S.) cardbacks to be listed as variants. Even just the Funskool cardbacks would be a huge undertaking. :eek:

The Canadian cardbacks would be nice to have listed as variants, of course, that makes a lot more work, as it opens all foreign (non-U.S.) cardbacks to be listed as variants. Even just the Funskool cardbacks would be a huge undertaking. :eek:
Yes, but do you think there should be an International section listed under the cardbacks? Even if it takes a long time to fill this up how cool would it be to have a Cobra Mortal or De-Aco cardback scan in this section? Some of these might take years to find if ever...

So, as of right now I'm thinking there should be a listing by year and then sections for explosion backs, redbacks, and International. What do you think about 9-backs, peach, etc? Do you think they should just be listed under the year of the card or have a separate category?

What I will probably do at the start since I don't have too many cardbacks is scan just the backs of my MOC figures to at least get them in the archives and then someone else can eventually provide scans of the fronts. One cool thing I just found as I was going through my figures is that my 1983 carded Grunt is an explosion back and I had forgotten I had one! The only other explosion back I have is a carded accessory pack. I can go ahead and get these in the archives since the expolsion back collectors are mainly interested in the backs of these cards anyway.

Come on guys--keep the suggestions coming!

Dan

International Should definetly be included under the cardbacks. I know I have a few Brazil Exclusives I could include.

As for US Cardbacks - as long as they are sorted in the same manner of the figures, by year, letter, etc then I would be more than happy.

All of the different variations are a tough call, if you include every variation there could be a ton of different sections, Play to Win, CC Sticker, Super Trooper Sticker, w/ Mini-Figure. On some figures you could have 4-5 different examples. To be thorough though I would includ each different version you can, maybe not under its own section but on any given figure just have a copy of each one available.

There is one member I know of with a full set up through like '92 of very clean and nice card backs, I don't think he would have the time to do them all but he may be able to offer some opinions or help with some harder to find ones. I will drop him a PM and point him to this thread.

As for me I only have about 15 different cardbacks and a few foreign Card backs but I will gladly add in what I can.

What's the point of having an International section if the International items keep ending up mixed in with the domestic items?

What's the point of having an International section if the International items keep ending up mixed in with the domestic items?
I understand your concern about this but I think the International cardbacks should be listed under the cardbacks section. What I plan to do is have links to the cardbacks on the action figures pages. For instance, if you go to the International section and click on Alpinista when the page comes up you will see a link to the cardback.

Dan

What's the point of having an International section if the International items keep ending up mixed in with the domestic items?

I gotta agree here. I think all US (domestic) stuff be kept free of INTN products. I, personally will only collect, thus have interest in, domestic products. For those that do collect INTN items I would think having all of their stuff centralized would be a boon as well. It staves off clutter in the archive pages too.

BTW: The updates to the archives and main page have been excellent. Thanks.

would it be to much trouble to simply have them catagorized by year/figure/variation?

then a search would be as simple as looking for the year of the figure, what figure and then you could see how many different variations of the cards were available? obviously some would only have one card available but others would have several different versions

I understand your concern about this but I think the International cardbacks should be listed under the cardbacks section. What I plan to do is have links to the cardbacks on the action figures pages. For instance, if you go to the International section and click on Alpinista when the page comes up you will see a link to the cardback.

Dan

If you do that then why separate the figures? Why separate the filecards? Why separate anything? The International figures are already in an International area. If you put the cards in the domestic part of the site and link them back to an International area, what sense does that make? International items should stay with International items - Isn't that the whole point of having the different sections?

I was wondering if the scans would include the artwork on the front of the card? I agree only do the ones from 94 and earlier since most of the artwork was absent.

Sorry, I am moving this up to YoJoe.com and Board Related so it doesn't get lost in the shuffle of Toys

I had emailed you already but since people are giving there feedback I shall give mine as well. I think the idea of having the cardbacks is great but lets keep in simple and easy. I think as said above it should just be links added to the figure archive. I mean they have moc pics and so forth in those and just adding a link below that would serve its purpose.The purpose of all this is just to show whats out there and what was made.Now since most have moc pics we really don't need to add a pic of it again of an opened one because you can see the artwork moc just as well. I think showing the backs is great though because it would show peach, variations, explosion backs and so on. I also wanted to see mail ins added to the persons name instead of having it in a different section. I mean its just so much easier to have it with the figure instead of special sections for everything. Now one thing I do think is a good idea is having 1 page where it explains what is what as far as cards and so on. WHat i mean is show 1 picture of an explosion back and next to the pic have an explanation of what it is and any others like peach file cards and so on. Once that main page is made explaining what is what then link it to each figure under the other links. That way if someone new is coming to the sight and looks up snake eyes and sees all these variations they can click on the link to the explanation page to learn more. I just think having it organized this way would save a lot of search time and space to the site instead of having more pics than necessary. I think the main thing to think is this is a lot of work doing anything so the easiest the better because there are a ton of things on the site that still needs pics and so on.

OK, some valid points are being made. Let me let everyone know what I am leaning to based on what I have gathered from you so far.

As far as the International cardbacks, fine, we could put them in the International section. Keep in mind that this would be on hold for a long time for two reasons: 1) Mike has other things (like figures and vehicles) that need to be added to the International section before this sort of project would need to be done, and that is his section, and 2)this is kind of my project and I don't want to create work for other people.

My line of thinking was just to have the cardback section set up like the filecard section and in the filecard section there is a link to International filecards. The point of having all the International items in the International section alone is duly noted. In fact, I have said the same thing myself and I plan to remove the Canadian paperwork from the inserts section (and possibly the catalogs as well).

I like thunt4's idea of having a cardback variation explanation page. I also agree that the MOC figures are already in the archives so why duplicate work?

I guess at this point we need to define the goal of a cardback section. Is the goal to have scans of every individual cardback or is the goal simply to let people know what the variations are? If the latter is the goal then this can be accomplished with thunt4's variations example page and nothing else. All we would have to do is have a single variations page showing an explosion back, a redback, peach, etc and then simply say under the action figure something like, "Snake-Eyes 1982 cardback variations include a 9-back, 11-back, and explosion back. Click here for an explanation of cardback variations." This would definitely save a lot of work. I would, however, also like to have a list of the variations so if someone says "I wonder how many different explosion backs there are?" they won't have to go through the action figures one at a time to check them all. Maybe on the single page we could have a description of a variation with one shown as an example and then have a list under it or something. The only list that would become lengthy would be the redbacks so we may have to have a line under the variation that reads, "Click here for a list of redbacks." This would be done simply to avoid having the variation page become really long.

OK, comments on my latest ramblings? I like the idea of making this easier so I can update other things and still get the information out there on cardbacks but if the consensus is to have individual scans I guess we can do that, too.

Dan

I know this part is the part that takes the most work but I think the whole reasoning behind some of the extra pics was to prove the existence of some of the items. If you check yojoe through the years you will always have discussions of if so and so came a certain way or certain rumors of how figures came packaged.Its nice to see a pic of it just to see its really real. I never saw a redback cobra. I have had a few cobra soldiers butnever seen a cobra so when I finally got one I believed it. I think just adding certain things like that proves its out there.I know I said about having a seperate page but that was sorta for a reference only just so someone can know the differences but showing pics of what is out there proves its real and legit. Anyone can say something was made but to prove it is a different story.I think a big problem that is going to come up is the redback, mail in ,sears ones becasue proving what they were offered with is kinda tough to prove. I mean we can open the sears catalog and get a nice amount but I have seen some and wondered when and how they were offered and sometimes we can only guess.Things like that I would rather wait on till we get the actual proof.I had actually mentioned in a post about an idea of maybe once a week we have a topic on yojoe asking for certain pics then getting all those for the archives then once that list is complete move on to a new list till all the holes are filled in with missing photos. I mean i think it would be easier on a mod or someone updating archives to only have say 5 things to add a week than being bombarded with a ton of different photos. My idea behind this was lets say we look at grunt and he is missing his file card and a moc photo(only making this up as an example) then we add him to the topic and instead of a mod having to update the page once and coming back later all the needed info would be there the first time because people would send photos for the specified figure for that topic and since its multiple updates for the same figure I am sure that would save some time.If I think of any other ideas I will post some up

Thanks for spearheading this, Dan.

You sent me a PM about this a few days ago, and I was waiting to have some free time to respond. Now that I have it, I'd like to just echo thunt4's comments.

I think it's most important, for navigability, that the cardbacks be linkable from the figures' individual pages. If there is to be a cardback archive separate from the figure archive, it ought to be a redundant set of links - like the filecard archive is. The backbone of the toy archives are those figure pages, and the cardback archive needs to be integrated into those existing pages for ease of use.

For example, on the 1982 Snake Eyes page, I'd ideally like to see the following links right beneath the Desimone and Tomart guide numbers:

-9/11 front
-9 w/cc offer front
-9 back
-11 back
-20/explosion front
-explosion back
-20 back
-32 front
-32 back

I realize that's a tall order, and it's going to take a lot of scans from a lot of people's collections to get all the card variations, but this would be the ideal.

------------------------

If this is too grand an undertaking, the ‘next best’ alternative would be to sample one of each major cardback type (ie 1982 11 back, 1984 32 back, etc). Then, instead of:

“Blowtorch was first released carded as part of the third series (1984). He was available in 1985 and was discontinued domestically in 1986.”

You could have:

“Blowtorch was first released on the 32 back card in 1984, then on the 34 back card in 1985.”

And have embedded links to a sample of each of those two cardback types.

-------------------------

One thing that nobody’s mentioned that I would find extremely useful, would be a page that had thumbnails of all the tags/promos linked to their respective cardbacks. For example:

A thumbnail of the Cobra Commander tag would link to a 9-back cardback.

A thumbnail of the “New(red) Swivel Arm Battle Grip” would link to an explosion/20-back cardback.

A thumbnail of the Triple Win tag would link to a 34-back series 3/4 cardback.

A thumbnail of the Sgt. Slaughter tag would link to a 36-back series 4/5 cardback.

A thumbnail of the Battle Ribbon sticker would link to a 34-back series 5/6 cardback.

…and so forth with the “Face camo included,” “super soldier,” etc. It’s very helpful (especially with eBay) to be able to identify the cardback from a picture of the cardfront. 9 times out of 10 you can do so based on the tags, stickers, and card features, but there’s no place on Yojoe or anywhere else that teaches newbies how to do so. As of now, it’s just something you have to pick up on as you collect. It’d be great for collectors if there were a database that could instantly impart this knowledge.

-----------------------

Wow. This has been quite a post. I’ll shut up now.

PM me if you need any scans. I have dozens and dozens of earlier series cardbacks.

-Zach

I would say that any international cards be home based in the international section with links out to the site. It is one of my goals to see all the international stuff come together as one nice big archive of International G.I.Joe information.

Zach I like your idea of listing all the different things, but I will be honest and say I don't know how feasile something like that will be. Its a small area and that would start to fill it up pretty good.

Anywho, you all keep talking it over. I am anxious to see what you end up wanting. I never in my wildest dream would have thought to come up with something like this. Collectors amaze me sometimes. Lol.

--
Devon

Hey guys,

First, let me just say thank you again to Dan for trying to get this done I'm in complete and total agreement with Zach. His ideas are precisely what I would like to see incorporated under the existing figure data. I recognize that this would be a very time consuming project, but would it not be possible to simply fill in the written data he mentioned first and then (as time goes by) slowly add the pictures?

OK, I must admit I am one of the newbies that needs to become educated when it comes to cardbacks. Zach, could you or someone else post a complete list of all the cardbacks you know of by year, similar to what you did here:

-9/11 front
-9 w/cc offer front
-9 back
-11 back
-20/explosion front
-explosion back
-20 back
-32 front
-32 back

I really would like a list like this only I would also like to have a year with each variation. I think that will help out a lot. In additon to the cardbacks I am trying to put together a timeline of G.I. Joe artists who worked on the line.

As Zach said, I have also been learning as I go but I want to put together some things that will help new collectors (or even Joe veterans) learn more about G.I. Joe. Eventually, people will be able to come to this site and say, "Wow, I didn't know Snake Eyes came on an Explosion Back card," or "So it was Ron Rudat that did all the original concept sketches for the Joe figures and Wayne Luther did all the original Joe vehicle concept sketches." Right now I will be busy with cardbacks and the collectibles but eventually I would like to see a "History of G.I. Joe" timeline that mentions who the artists were that worked on the line, who did the package art for the line, fury force, and even the figures that were going to make up the 1995 line before the line was cancelled. This will definitely be a project for the future (if the people in charge are OK with it!) but I think some of these changes will make yojoe even better and get more people back to the site.

Meanwhile, back to the present, could someone please post the list of cardbacks variations by year?

Dan

I was thinking of something Zach said about changing the text on the figures to indicate which card backs that particular figure was packaged on. It seems to me this would be a huge investment of time changing text on everyfigure released for 12 years.

My suggestion would be to have the list of cardbacks and variations with examples, and then on the example page, a list of which figures were issued with that card. Maybe not an elegant solution, but possibly a more simple solution.

Can anyone make a complete list of variations by year? That would really help.

Dan

I'm away from my collection, so I can only take you through the stuff I've committed to memory. So here's everything that series 1-5 joes were pictured on (that's what I collect, principally). I don't know a thing about the redbacks or sears packs or whatever...

1982 - 9 back (series 1 - cobra, cobra officer)
- cobra commander offer 9-back (series 1 - cobra, cobra officer)
- 11 back (series 1)

1983 - 20 back w/coming soon explosions (series 1 + cobra commander)
- 20 back (series 1, 2)

1984 - 32 back (series 1, 2, 3, (and also zartan))

1985 - 34 back w/swivel arm battle grip tag (cobra, snow job, gung ho, torpedo, destro, series 3, 4)
- 34 back w/triple win tag ( " " " " )

------hereforth cardbacks are 3d logo-ed and grey filecarded------

1986 - 36 back w/swivel arm tag (storm shadow, series 4, 5)
- 36 back w/body transfer tag ( " " " )
- 36 back w/sgt. slaughter tag ( " " " )

1987 - 34 back w/swivel arm tag (series 5, 6)
- 34 back w/battle ribbon tag ( " " " )
- 34 back w/fridge tag ( " " " )
- 34 back w/fridge tag and coming soon explosions (????falcon, psycheout, cobra commander, law and order, crazylegs, crystalball????)

Other series 6 figures (chuckles, jinx, outback would be strong possibilities) may be available on the 34 back w/coming soon explosions, but the ones listed above are the only ones confirmed in this thread:

http://forums.yojoe.com/showthread.php?t=14731

To my understanding, no series 5 figures appear to have been released on this cardback, despite being pictured. I've only seen the coming soon explosions on the 34 backs with the fridge tag. I don't know if they existed on the battle ribbon and regular cards too.

I'm pretty sure the above info is correct, but chime in if I'm wrong.

Oh yeah. There are also the individual character variations. Like the multiple Major Bludd, Crimson Guard, and Buzzer filecards. I don't know which cardbacks those variants exhibited themselves on. If each variant was unique to a cardback style (ie the "GI Joe" Destro filecard is exclusive to the 20 and 32 backs, and the corrected version is the 34-back), then there's no more to be listed.

But I think with the multitude of Buzzer variants, particularly, different filecards probably appeared on otherwise-identical cardbacks. So there are those few figures that deserve asterisks in the cardback variations list.

Some of the pics are not that good.I wish they were brighter and clearer.
Both sides of the carded figs.from 1982-1988 also the TRU 3-Packs need re-done
I want to make a cdr for my own personal reference.

OK, here is what I am going to propose to the webmaster for the cardback setup. First of all, look at this link for the action figures and notice the way the left sidebar is set up:

http://www.yojoe.com/action/

I would like for the cardback section to have a similar format. On the left side I would like the years first, followed by an alphabetical listing, and for the individual section under that I would like to have sections for the explosion backs, redbacks, and a variations section that when clicked goes to a page explaining the different variations.

Once again, here will be the links on the left side:

--Yearly Listing

--Alphabetical Listing

--Explosion Backs

--Redbacks

--Variations

Would you like any other variations to have a separate listing on the left side (9-backs, peach, etc)?

Now having said that let me explain what I will do when something is submitted. Let's say someone submits a 1983 Explosion Back Grunt (actually I will be adding this from my collection!). I will create the page for the cardback and add links to the 1983 section, the "G" section, the Explosion Backs section, and also in the action figures section. I think this would be the best way to do it for all concerned. I just want the separate Explosion Backs and Redbacks sections so a person who is only looking for those particular variations can just go to those sections and not have to go and search through every year.

OK, all I need now is to know if you would like to see any other individual sections listed on the left. I would like to submit this to the webmaster early next week if possible so we can get this project started.

Just a cool note--I won a cardback lot several months ago and just put it away and kind of forgot about it. I just went through some of my collection looking for cardbacks and I noticed that the lot had four 9-backs in it, including Snake Eyes! I didn't even know I had these! I bought the lot because of something else that was in it and I didn't even collect cardbacks at the time. I love it when this happens!

Dan

By having both Alphabetical and Yearly links, you're suggesting that all cardbacks of all figures are to be added to the archive. I thought this was deemed too labor intensive?

As long as the links to the relevant cardbacks are on their action figures' individual pages, I think it's great. Because I would never look at a filecard if it was only accessible through the filecard gallery. I, and most people I think, log 90% of their archive hours in the action figure section.

I would NOT like to see Peach backs or 9-backs identified as variants. Those cardback types were available universally across the line. They were points in the GI Joe line's history, not variants...

I'm tired of auctioneers and even AFA identifying series 1 and 2 figures as being on the "rarer peach filecard." Of course they are. They all were. Identifying them as variants would only perpetuate these irrelevant boasts.

I know it would be a lot more work but I would like to add scans of all the cardbacks from 1982-94. Call me crazy, but even if I only add 2 a week we would have over 700 in there by the end of the year. This is obviously going to be a long-term project but with the help of the cardback collectors I am willing to take it on.

As far as cardbacks for the recent years, I'm not entirely sure there is an interest in those due to the nature of the package. The new mail order figures, however, look like they may warrant a place in the cardback section since they are similar to the old-style cards.

Dan

[QUOTE=
I'm tired of auctioneers and even AFA identifying series 1 and 2 figures as being on the "rarer peach filecard." Of course they are. They all were. Identifying them as variants would only perpetuate these irrelevant boasts.[/QUOTE]


I believe the peach file card is rarer not because of any variants(of which the peach file is not),but because it is older and much harder to find in mint condition.The older a toy the harder to find philosophy.
When I was a kid I opened the carded figures and played with them as I am sure all of us did.So with the parents throwing them away,kids playing hard with them,plus the age is what makes these rarer.For instance a peach file moc storm shadow is much harder to find than the grey moc file s.s.
Why?Because the peach file card was the first one out.
Just my 2 cents

I don't deny that the older cards are rarer, I just don't like reading, again and again, claims that something from series 1-3 (excluding Storm Shadow, where the claim is true) is more valuable because it's on a peach cardback. It fosters the idea that grey cardbacks were available all the way back to series 1.

I had a person ask me once if a '82 Breaker I was selling was on a grey cardback or the rarer peach version. That's the kind of confusion that I don't want to propagate.

Hello,

Is this project still on the radar.

Thank You,

Mr. Crimson

Yes, based on the replies this weekend I am going to propose the layout for the cardback section to the webmaster. I would have done this sooner but Star Wars III has taken a good bit of my time lately (three viewings)!

Dan

Two more questions for everyone:

1) Should I provide scans of the backs of my carded figures until we can get scans of the front of the corresponding cardbacks? I have two "Explosion Backs" that are carded and I'm not about to open them just to get scans of the front of the cards. I also noticed some of the early carded figures in the archives don't even have scans of the backs of the cards so it would be nice to at least get something in there for these figures. Ideally what I would like to do is have a scan for both the front and the back of a cardback on the same page (full size, of course).

2) If I have someone submit scans of a cardback that has a very damaged front where the bubble was removed should I go ahead and add it or wait for a good one?

Just a reminder, I'm going to submit the final layout to the webmaster probably on Tuesday so please check out my previous post in this thread about the proposed layout and give me your final suggestions.

Dan

OK, just in case you miss it:

http://forums.yojoe.com/showthread.php?t=25211

The thread will be a "sticky" at the top of this category. I am now going to close this thread so we don't have multiple threads talking about the same thing. Please post all additional comments in the new thread.

Dan