Obiwan in another thread labeled me as a DEALER however I said since I buy and collect more than I end up selling I considered myself a COLLECTOR. I do sell a fair share on EBAY and I do try to make a profit. ALL the funds I take in on EBAY however are respent on more GI JOE items and then some. I do not use any of the money I get from selling to buy anything else. (thats what my day job is for). I always pictured a DEALER as someone that uses it as his primary source of income and has either a brick & mortar storefront or an online store and sets up at toy shows and cons. The only thing I have is an EBAY account and that is it. I have never set up at a show or con, and I do not have a website. I have collecting goals- to obtain a dead mint version of every figure from 82 to 94 along with a full cardback and a nice cut filecard. Believe it or not I am actually a long way away from this (mainly the 90-94 stuff). So my question really becomes at what point is someone labeled as a DEALER? I consider buying and selling of JOES a hobby that supports my collecting goals that I spoke of above.

1. when you snatch a toy away from a child to resell for profit
or
2. when you wear a way too tight t-shirt, stop general grooming, and set up a store, stand, booth ect.......to sell joes to those "suckers" who want them

well me if i had my choice i wouldn't have to sell my joes but times change and when i'm out of work or need money for bills etc... i have to sell stuff off,but thats life.

Obiwan in another thread labeled me as a DEALER however I said since I buy and collect more than I end up selling I considered myself a COLLECTOR.

To be fair, I also apologized and deleted my posts.

Otherwise, I'm not going to comment. . .

-PJ

I get labelled the same way. I have almost gotten into fistfights over it. I have been lumped in with Brian's toys in threads. I sell Joes to make a living right now, but I still buy an awful lot for myself, and tend to keep the stuff i really like (army builders, art, prototypes, etc) for myself.

After a while, i just laid back and figured, people are gonna call you what they want to call you. There is nothing i can say or do to change their minds, except live my life and let them all buy joes from someone else.

I always think of the guy on the Simpson's that runs the comic shop...:D

Okay, to be serious I haven't really given it much thought. Most "dealers" I know have regular jobs and only sell toys on the side. Practically zero dealers I know actually sell vintage stuff as a sole source of income.

Brian's Toys is in a totally different category, of course.

To specifically answer your question I would say a dealer is someone who actively buys toys with the express purpose of selling them again later for a profit. It is inconsequential what the volume of those transactions would be in my definition.

I always think of the guy on the Simpson's that runs the comic shop...:D

Okay, to be serious I haven't really given it much thought. Most "dealers" I know have regular jobs and only sell toys on the side. Practically zero dealers I know actually sell vintage stuff as a sole source of income.

Brian's Toys is in a totally different category, of course.

To specifically answer your question I would say a dealer is someone who actively buys toys with the express purpose of selling them again later for a profit. It is inconsequential what the volume of those transactions would be in my definition.


hmmm sounds like Neo Scott reason i say him is one time when i was in a pinch he offered me a well below avg. on my joes i was selling then turned around and sold em for alot more,then when i had some money to buy some of the items did he give me a deal **** no.

Ithink a dealer is someone that doesn't really have a serious interest in something other than profit. I also think when this type of thing comes up its mainly because someone sees certain people selling mostly and not buying or buying a lot and selling a lot. I think i have gotten to the point where I buy and sell a lot. I am not ashame to say it. I make an extra amount for more gijoes.My thing is the longer you collect you find better ways to obtain things. I myself buy lots upgrade my lesser grade figures and sell my doubles unless I want multiples of something. A lot of times when people see you win something and sell the same figure you get labeled a dealer which is fine.About 8 years ago due to me losing my job I had to sell pretty much most of my collection which included a pretty large amount of moc figures. When I started back up again I knew the different tricks to rebuilding a collection and knew how to make some profit since I sold my collection before. The thing is that most people don't get is a lot of times when you sell things you build a lot of friendships out of it because of all the sales and so on.Everyone like any other debate is entitled to there opinion but sometimes words can be taken the wrong way. A person can write a sentence and 10 people can all take if a different way.

1. when you snatch a toy away from a child to resell for profit
or
2. when you wear a way too tight t-shirt, stop general grooming, and set up a store, stand, booth ect.......to sell joes to those "suckers" who want them

Angry? A dealer is somebody who sells full-time and derives their income from that business. That said, in the hobby industry, there is a big gray area where hobbyists buy and resale to support their hobby. Honestly, these people put a big crunch on those who sell full-time. Action figures aren't too bad as that it is hard to get inventory to sell. In my business (games, miniatures, cards), I get alot of competition from people who sell on the side. A lot of distributors and manufacturers don't really care who they sell to as long as they sell the stuff. Conversely, those part-timers don't have my overhead (shop rent, utilities, pay for Jeff - if I'm lucky) and reduce their selling price to move the stuff they don't want. Its very frustrating.

To specifically answer your question I would say a dealer is someone who actively buys toys with the express purpose of selling them again later for a profit. It is inconsequential what the volume of those transactions would be in my definition.

For the record let me also say that I don't think "dealer" is a negative label. Just wanted to make that clear.

Currently... I'm solely a collector. That doesn't mean I won't make a passing attempt to come up out of the red when i do decide to sell stuff, but even at this point I'm just trying to make some extra money to further fund my collection.


But I have aspirations of a vintage toy store in both the brick/mortar and online realms. "Until the day of evil thereof though"... *lol*
Dealer is defined in my book as any person that makes a general profit and provides to a broad mass. It is either a sole or substantial secondary income. Plus you will also pretty much get lumped into this group (in my eyes) if you have gone so far as to establish a "name". Not a handle or username, but a widely-known and identifiable term of broad recognition.

Otherwise, you are a dabbler at best. No offense to other dabblers. ;)

well i originally started collecting back in the 80's and i had cases of GiJoes still on the card,i had everything from 82-87 i had like 300 Cobra Troops 70% still on the card i had CG'S still on the card i had every vehicle and many duplicates,i had probably a total of 5,000 GiJoe/Cobra figures and hundreds of vehicles,and then i joined the Army in '87 and left my Stuff in Storage at my folks house 4 years later i go back to my folks house to gather my stuff and move it to my new place,to find out to my horror that my mother had sold off everything at a garage sale,and told me she made $1,000 even for everything from a couple of buyers(she sold my Transformers still in box and on card too),to say the least this devestated me,since then i have tried to replace that collection to no success everytime i start building up any type of force i'm out of work or need to fix car or pay bills,and i end up selling everything off,as it goes i'm in a vicous cycle now,i start buying again then have to sell off,as it goes work has dropped to a dead still so once again i'm faced with haveing to sell my collection again just so i can pay a few bills and a couple of eBay sellers i still owe,but i'm holding off till the last minutes in hopes of something better happening,does that make me a dealer?no it makes me a very sad collector.

Alright before I say anything more, there's a good chance I'll get hammered for this, and I'm actually shocked this hasn't been locked down yet. There is a lot of room for a flame war to start...

Anyhow, here we go...

TST amd Kevin, though you might see yourselves as collectors, others might see you as dealers. I'll respect that you both have a passion for GI Joe and have personal collections, hence the reason I would agree you are collectors.

I also wasn't born yesterday and for the last time no I don't want a wooden nickel. TST, I've seen you online ebay store, and Kevin, you had a pretty nice booth at the con. I'm not sure if either of you are not claiming to be dealers, but I believe you both are.

From the title of the thread, it looks like we can be a dealer, a collector, or both.

Hopefully you won't take this the wrong way, but I think both of you are both collectors and dealers...

Personally, I think of myself as a collector. I'd die from high stress levels if I were a dealer...I also would keep way more than what I sold, hence, i'd be a really lousy dealer...

Tanner

i dont think it is all that negative to call someone a dealer, as long as they are a fair one-
and type s, i mean you came out of nowhere onto this board and wow you have a lot of stuff on ebay.

to me , you got enough invested/ flowing , you're a dealer, so what?

it is cool to find out you also keep lots for yourself, makes for a better dealer (usually)

i am pretty much a collector but also an investor. i usually get extras to save mint, or just sell of a few years later. at this point i have to sell stuff to buy new, and to have room for it.

which almost makes me a mini dealer, i think most of us end up doing these kind of things. i pretty much HAVE to get to look at everything for at least a year before i am willing to let it go though.

Clutch II that is too sad, i am sorry you had to have that happen ARGH!

i dont think it is all that negative to call someone a dealer, as long as they are a fair one-
and type s, i mean you came out of nowhere onto this board and wow you have a lot of stuff on ebay.

to me , you got enough invested/ flowing , you're a dealer, so what?

it is cool to find out you also keep lots for yourself, makes for a better dealer (usually)

i am pretty much a collector but also an investor. i usually get extras to save mint, or just sell of a few years later. at this point i have to sell stuff to buy new, and to have room for it.

which almost makes me a mini dealer, i think most of us end up doing these kind of things. i pretty much HAVE to get to look at everything for at least a year before i am willing to let it go though.

Clutch II that is too sad, i am sorry you had to have that happen ARGH!

I guess the reason I hesitate to call myself a dealer is there seems to be a stigma that most dealers are "shady" characters. In reality there probably are more good dealers than bad dealers. I guess I now have to accept the fact that I indeed am a dealer but I am just as much a collector at the same time. I enjoy buying and selling and trading with people that share the same love and passion for the best toy line ever created. With that being said please go buy something from me!!!

I think that perhaps the only prolific "dealer" in the community that has a pretty strong stigma as being a dealer with a negative spin is Brian's Toys. Some others have taken their fair amounts of shots on the board but regardless maintain a fairly positive perception. I also think that Brian's Toy's primarily sole complaintants are in regards to the prices of which he buys and then re-sells his items, which I will be the first to say are rather inflated in even my own limited experience.

I wouldn't take the titlage of dealer to expressedly interpet into "rip-off-artist" exactly...

Of course... I'm spitting words without knowing what kind of ammo is being used on the field. :rolleyes:

There's nothing wrong with dealers. I really wish there were more of them. Besides auction listings, there are only 5 or 6 places I know (brian'stoys, cloudcity, planetforce, etc) where I can go to find the stuff I collect. I don't fault toy dealers for trying to make a profit. As I do not fault restaurants, department stores, or banks for trying to do so. It's how the world operates.

And the people that have the dedication and initiative to actually set up and manage a store, search/buy/sell, file tax returns, etc deserve to get something back in return. Or should they have to go hungry to prove they love little plastic men as much as we do?

And by the way, Clutch II, I'd be serving a life sentence for matricide right now if that'd happened to me.

well see thats the problem i have nothing wrong with honest sellers and dealers but when i see someone selling a $5 figure at a show then turn around take the weapons and price the same fig for $10 thats just not right then there are sellers who blind side you with high charges for S&H and then screw you on shipping the item like i posted here.

http://forums.yojoe.com/showpost.php?p=137553&postcount=17

And by the way, Clutch II, I'd be serving a life sentence for matricide right now if that'd happened to me.

don't think i wasn't tempted i told her with what i had i could have bought a house,but she didn't belive me till i showed her a coolector price guide.

I see no wrong in people buyng, trading, selling or dealing to make money as long as they are up front and are not lying hiding any faults on the item. If you don't like the prices don't buy it. Which will eventually cause them to lower the prices if they need the money bad enough. Does it realy matter if you are a dealer or not? Why am I seeing people upset due to other people making a little profit. I understand it isn't right for people to take toys out of kids hands to make some money but if you collect why not buy some extra for a rainy day. If you are a dealer/collector buy a little more to get some of your expenses back and if you like dealing then deal. If the price is right for me I will buy off of you as long as you have a good reputation. If you deal only I don't care because I am not you. I hope you enjoy it. If I could make some money back selling figures then I would and I have made a little back but not nearly what I have paid out in the last year. If it weren't for some dealers I wouldn't have some of the items I have now. Bottom line is Does it really make anyone a bad person wether they deal, collect or do both. In My opinion NO!! Let just all buy, trade, sell and have fun.

ok tiger then ask yourself this a new figure comes out that is sold only in one store chain you go into buy it and find out 1 guy is there and just grabbed them all and offers to sell you one at 4 times the price,you say no you'll just wait for the next shipment,next shipment comes in and just as you get to the aisle you see the same guy and he just grabbed all of the same figure again,this time he offers to sell it to you for 6 times the price,where will it end?and believe me i've seen this happen alot of times,like my local TRU had the 6 pack shadow figures today and one guy came in and bought all of them they had,usually when i buy something i'll buy 1 or 2 except if they have been there a while then i'll buy whats left.

That's what I do. I buy 2 of everything. One to open and one for MOC. And as someone else said there are good and bad people everywhere. I just wouldn't buy off of that guy. I would ask for help from a fellow YoJoe member.

but thats how i differentiate between a collector and a dealer,a collector is someone who buys for themselves and maybe buys a few more for trade bait,or sells the items at a fair reasonable price,a dealer buys items specifically for jacking up the price to make an outrageous profit,and doesn't care for the items except as a money maker,one seller i've seen is a collector and a seller but i would not call him a dealer because his prices are reasonable,and that is Cobra Island Toys,i was perusing thru his eBay store and his prices are reasonable and so is his shipping,in fact as soon as he gets his internet working properly me and him were gonna do some trading of some Transformers i got from another trade for some GiJoes at fair value for both of us,that is what i call a collector.

I would enjoy helping others get the items they want for their collection, however It is me who needs the items for my collection is just beginning to grow. I see where you are coming from there is a fine line between making money and being a little outrageous. If you think about it though it is us collectors that keep the prices high by buying from them. But then again If I want something bad enough I will pay a good bit more for it after I get tired of waiting. And if you have a tight budget like myself it makes it hard to get some of those items I would love to have. That is why I say there are good dealers and bad dealers. I buy from the good dealers with their reasonable prices. I don't mind if they make a dollar or 2. It is my choice to buy off of them or not. If their items aren't selling then they will have to lower the prices or keep them.

well my problem is that the new Cobra night watch set is now available from Hasbro but due to the fact that i am out of work,no money,etc,etc.. i will be unable to buy any and when i can they will be outrageous.

I know how you feel I have been trying to get another cobra infantry so I can open one and they are selling pretty high. I have noticed though that they are starting to come down a little. Collecting def is not easy especially when everyone is talking about that item that you cant afford. But on the other hand if the items would sit on the shelves or in hasbro's factories then the line would probably def end sooner or later. Its a no win situation. A great dealer will have enough people to sell to that they would make money and still sell the product at a reasonable price.

yeah but what always gets me is that people are paying like $30 or more for an item that is still in the stores for $20,thats what perpetuates the greedy dealers.

1. when you snatch a toy away from a child to resell for profit
or
2. when you wear a way too tight t-shirt, stop general grooming, and set up a store, stand, booth ect.......to sell joes to those "suckers" who want them

Isn't this the criteria that "everyone" uses to define a "scalper"? Are all dealers now scalpers?

When did this country stop being the USA and become Communist Russia (or USSR)? Now it's a bad thing to start a business (no matter how small) and make a profit? I just don't understand this nonsense. Like any business, if you overcharge or screw people on shipping, you will not survive, or at least, not do a lot of business. I feel bad for anyone that is suckered by one of these sellers, but just like with every other business in the world, the buyer is the one responsible for allowing himself to be taken. I know, the whole notion of personal responsibility isn't very popular right now.

And really, I apply that thinking to dealing with scalpers, who ARE different from dealers (although some dealers will blur the lines between the two). If I go to TRU and see someone buying all of the Cobra Infantry 6 packs, I might not be happy, but I know I had just as much oppurtunity to buy them as he did, I was just too lazy to leave home 2 minutes earlier than I did (I am a lifelong procrastinator, has cost me a lot!) And if it really comes down to it, I will wait for another shipment, go to another store in the chain, buy from the website, or wait for demand to go down and buy it on eBay. There is nothing in the last 10 years in Star Wars or Joe that I have been unable to buy for retail price or less, eventually. I procrastinated on the Star Wars FAO overpriced stuff, and eventually bought it at K-B for much less. I passed the CCC when I first (and only time) I saw it at TRU, thought I had really screwed up on that one, and we see what happened with it.

I'm not saying that is for everyone, there are always people that don't have the patience or determination or time, and they will pay a premium for that. Well, that's what America is all about. And before anyone goes there, I am certainly not advocating grabbing toys out of some little kids hands. But if I go to the store, and something I want is on the shelf, I'm going to buy as many as I want, and if that happens to be all of them, well, good for the store, they sold out of that shipment.

I agree with stad - the line gets blurred when you start talking about reselling for 4-5x what you paid for an item.

A lot of dealers don't need to do that - they've got enough stock and repeat business to keep the cash flow going.

Not so for Joe Public, who just happened to read ToyFare or Wizard, got to the "10 hottest figures" section, and camped out at Wal-Mart for a week straight without sleeping to get those figures. He's got one shot at big payoff, and that half clear, half solid Invisible Woman is his ticket to paying off the mortgage and his kid's college tuition. No repeat stock, no repeat business, just quick hit and run. And sky high prices. That's scalper territory.

Do I see the guys here jack their prices up? No more than they should. If someone gets cases of figures at store cost (not wholesale cost) or gets robbed on an order, he has to make that difference up somewhere. I don't mind that.

I had a goofy post written last night along the lines of a ...you might be a redneck, but for dealers. Then I realized that most of the goofy stuff I was coming up with applied to scalpers, not legit dealers.

I don't begrudge Kevin, Curt, or Type S their business. Heck, a couple dealers here have bought stuff (vehicle parts, etc.) from me and I've seen the completed vehicles go for very reasonable prices. Good for the whole community.

I buy lots, sell my extras (usually at unit cost, say 30 figures for $60, I sell the extras at $2 apiece) and put the "profit" right back into my collection. I'm constantly rebuilding, selling, rebuilding. That's my approach to the hobby.

Am I a dealer? Not really. Do I sell? Yes. Have I set up at shows? A couple. Do I fill a niche? Yup. Could I survive if I wasn't selling toys? Sure.

It's more about the hunt for me. I finally got a mast cap for my Flagg after two years of looking. Could I have bought a complete Flagg and sold off my incomplete one? Probably. But I had more fun this way.:D

I'd have to concider myself both a collector and a dealer.

I've bought lots of vehicles and figures to sell off the parts. Mainly it's to help keep the CT Show going. I usually only sell at shows, but I am working to put a list online. Yeah, I try and make a bit of a profit, but as a dealer it wouldn't be worth it if I didn't. Especially having "overhead". I've registered my company and paid for my license. I have to pay sales taxes plus other taxes as necessary. Plus there's the little stuff such as bags, packaging, time to sort, operating expenses, etc.

A lot of time dealers, such as those listed in the sponsors bar at the right, get ripped into for higher prices. I'd have to defend them (except when charging obscene scalper prices), as you need to see it from their standpoint. Operating expenses include what I mentioned above. Then add in warehouse/storage/operating space, staff salaries, and advertising (like in the sponsor bars). While the big boys like Target, TRU and Wal Mart can keep an item under retail, they often buy in large enough quantities to merit good discounts. Or, they might be willing to take a loss on a product because they can make it up somewhere else. It's easy for them because getting a person in to buy something GI Joe might result in them picking up a DVD or pair of jeans as well.

As a collector I buy more than I sell. Since I collect both 3 & 3/4" and 12" series it can become quite overpowering (and expensive). I've bought lots for one or two pieces and sold off the rest. For some of the 12" figures, loose parts is BIG business. One part can command half the cost of the figure. I usually buy a figure to get what parts I need, then sell or trade off the rest. If I can get close to what I paid for it then I'd be happy.

I've been in this hobby for a while and I've seen this topic come up a few times before. Everyone has their own set of rules what defines a dealer vs a collector.

It's not worth making enemies over tho. It's part of any hobby, so we're not the first ones to enjoy the topic.

Regardless of being a dealer and/or collector, it's all about having fun and enjoying the hobby. If you can't do that, then why bother?

John

I agree with most of the posts in this thread. I strongly disagree with people calling dealers "scumbags" because they charge $10 for a figure they bought for $5. That's called profit, my friend. Without profit, nobody would operate a business. That kind of mark-up isn't bad. Take jewelry, for example. I have a friend who managed a jewelry store for several years, and he told me that a $400-$500 piece of jewelry cost them $100. The same thing applies to clothing. I own a game shop, and my costs are roughly 55% of retail (a $10 book costs me $5.50). To be honest, that profit doesn't count for much when you include rent, utilities, licenses, taxes, etc. Now, I do hate scalpers - those are the guys who run down to TRU as soon as the truck unloads and buys everything and then jacks up the price. A legit dealer gets his stock from manufacturers and distributors, not at the retail level. Those people are not dealers - they are scalpers. However, there are a number of dealers who do that (I find them unethical).

Angry? A dealer is somebody who sells full-time and derives their income from that business. That said, in the hobby industry, there is a big gray area where hobbyists buy and resale to support their hobby. Honestly, these people put a big crunch on those who sell full-time. Action figures aren't too bad as that it is hard to get inventory to sell. In my business (games, miniatures, cards), I get alot of competition from people who sell on the side. A lot of distributors and manufacturers don't really care who they sell to as long as they sell the stuff. Conversely, those part-timers don't have my overhead (shop rent, utilities, pay for Jeff - if I'm lucky) and reduce their selling price to move the stuff they don't want. Its very frustrating.

my post was clearly tougue in cheack, with #2 poking fun at the simpson's comic book guy, and from personal experice i have seen people buy toys by pushing little kiddies out of the way, i know in the past i have seen adult dealers push kids out of the joe aisle at tru

Wow, this thread has taken off. A touchy subject it seems.

I proudly admit to being a GI Joe dealer, but not a scalper. I don't buy much new stuff to re-sell. I mostly deal with stuff that has been off the shelves for quite a few years. I really like the Joes from the 80's (my time), so that is what I specialize in. I used to have a website, but now I sell exclusively on Ebay, because it's just easier.

In the past three years I have made more than half of my income from selling GI Joes (I have also worked waiting tables and preaching). I have built a nice collection for myself and have probably made around $40k in the process (I'm not getting rich, but I make enough to get by on). It has taken a ton of time. I probably could've made more money if I'd just waited tables, but dealing with GI Joes is so much more fun that it is worth the cut in pay.

I am honest and upright in all of my transactions and I want happy, repeat customers. Most of my stuff, I buy in big lots and clean-up, repair or find the parts needed to complete them, so they can be sold individually. This is where the profit is made, but it takes work and nobody works for free. I don't set the prices, the market does.

I'm not evil and I don't take advantage of people. I believe most dealers are like me. Don't let a few bad people out there give all dealers a bad name. I'm a collector too and no less so because I also am a dealer.

P.S. I am usually well-groomed, because my wife likes that.

I am not a dealer. I, however, do consider being a dealer as honorable a profession as anything else. It can be straightforward and honest work. Honesty and fairness are not the personal domain of collectors looking out for each other. Every collectible/market needs suppliers. That is where the dealers come in. Yes, there are less than honest joe dealers, just as there are less than honest sellers in any market. Any area in which people are willing to spend money will attract a certain number of opportunistic losers looking to make a fast buck at the expense of the collector. These human stains should not reflect on the honest and useful people who further the community.

Dealer is not a negative term. It is a term that can achieve honor with honest effort. Scalpers, as has been already pointed out, are the true people who should be reviled. These are the ones deserving of the community's wrath. While every dealer does have bad moments and sales that go awry, the good ones do what they can to make it right, and still make a buck along the way. More power to 'em. :)

[QUOTE=The MASS Device]In the past three years I have made more than half of my income from selling GI Joes (I have also worked waiting tables and preaching).

Seriously? I thought I was the only aspiring pastor in the whole world who collected Joes. My fellow pastors look at me like I'm insane. Could be right, I guess. :D

some of you keep trying to paint a rosy picture of what a dealer is,but lets face it reality bites,you want to have a very vivid picture of a dealer then look at your local Hot Wheels collectors,most are about unscrupolous as it gets,there is this line called Treasure Hunt's,these dealers will not even wait for this type of HotWheel to get on store shelves,they will have a flunky get it for them straight out of the case in the back room,this has become such a problem that some stores have the manager started locking up cases when they come in.(don't believe me go to your local toy store and just say the words HotWheel collector and see the reaction you get.)


this same sort of Phenomenon has now started to happen to GiJoe,i just found out that my local TRU had recieved 2 cases of the Shadow guard packs,but one was stolen right out of the Backroom,so tell me you think a collector stole that case?i highly doubt it,there is a very fine line between a collector and a dealer,but it comes down to this a collector collects,while a dealer only sells.

I'm pretty much in the same boat as The Mass Device. I recently re-did my extra list into a "store" format on the web, mainly because I was wasting way too much time keeping html files updated and needed something dynamic. I don't have the time to nickel and dime individual accessories so I look for collections and buy in bulk. I always keep what I want and the rest goes on my site or ebay, I sell stuff and head right back on ebay to buy more. I guess that would qualify me as a dealer as well but if I didn't do this then there is no way I could afford to get new Joes as my real Job pays for the real things in life and this allows me the ability to keep getting new Joes and keep my house too.

but it comes down to this a collector collects,while a dealer only sells.

Why does it have to be so black and white?

Some people would say I am a dealer but foremost in my mind I am a collector. 99% of what I sell is either out of my own collection or I bought a lot of stuff to get one or two things out of it for myself and need to get rid of the rest. I don't actively search things out to sell for a profit but if I happen across them, I will consider it. I have a couple of core areas of my collection and then a large area of things that is always in a state of change. A lot of things I buy to keep and then get rid of a couple of years later when I tire of them, run out of room (which happens a lot) or need money for a bigger collectible purchase.

I don't sell anything for life supporting cash - my collection is always in a state of change - it evols through buying and selling and often can support itself.

I really think you can be both a collector and a dealer.

I also think to pigeon hole someone as one thing or another is wrong.

Why does it have to be so black and white?

Some people would say I am a dealer but foremost in my mind I am a collector. 99% of what I sell is either out of my own collection or I bought a lot of stuff to get one or two things out of it for myself and need to get rid of the rest. I don't actively search things out to sell for a profit but if I happen across them, I will consider it. I have a couple of core areas of my collection and then a large area of things that is always in a state of change. A lot of things I buy to keep and then get rid of a couple of years later when I tire of them, run out of room (which happens a lot) or need money for a bigger collectible purchase.

I don't sell anything for life supporting cash - my collection is always in a state of change - it evols through buying and selling and often can support itself.

I really think you can be both a collector and a dealer.

I also think to pigeon hole someone as one thing or another is wrong.

but the question is do you collect,and listening to your post you do collect,if someone offered you a fair trade for something you wanted,would you do it?thats called tradeing which is what collector's do,remember i said a dealer does not collect they buy to sell at a highly inflated price.

remember i said a dealer does not collect they buy to sell at a highly inflated price.

Sorry Clutch, but you are wrong. The type of person you are refering to is a scalper. Be it a collector or dealer. I think a lot of the folks here would agree with me.

There are many types of dealers. And I know many of them that collect as well as dealing, myself included.

To be honest, it sounds like you've got a bad taste in your mouth because of the amount of scalpers operating in your area. As a dealer and a collector I take offense at being lumped in with this type of person.

Perhaps you need to reread some of the posts here with folks that consider themselves to be dealers and collectors to get a better understanding.

John

but you misunderstand what i'm saying i classify people this way:


Dealer: one who only sells and does not care for the hobby other then to make money.

Collector: one who collects,sells,trades,one who cares about the hobby and tries to help his/her community with a better understanding of it.

I just thought of a very good thing to say. I read all the posts and the reason toy dealers get so much crap from people is the fact that most of us know what the item costs weathers its 20 years ago or today.Now When you go to walmart they don't tell you actual cost on things so you really don't think twice about it. I work for a pharmacy and I get to see what actual cost of items are. Most drugs are marked up from 20-60% and then we get a dispensing fee and so on. I know one that that always irked me about selling loose figures is this. I mean we know figures were like 2.50-3.50 when they came out so when they sell for 10-20 now why are we even complaining? I mean the markup is not bad at all for 25 years. Its only 4 times from original prices. I do see how scalping is frustrating but lets face it some of you don't think logically at all. Ok say you wanted some toys r us 6 packs and they are $20 then you pay tax. so thats 21.20 in my state. Now how far did you drive to get there? say you drive 30 miles to and from toys r us to buy something. I get like 20 miles to the gallon so lets round up and say you paid $5 for gas you got 26.20. Most people off ebay if you wait a little you can get them for a good price. A lot of gijoe collectors are as bad as hot wheels collectors because they all want the newest thing now and only now. If some of you guys would wait like 4 months you could easily find them on ebay for a cheap price maybe even sometimes cheaper than what it would cost to go to the store.This is always going to be a touchy subject. Like dockingbay said its not black and white there are a lot of different options between the 3 choices said. If you look most of the older guys only have bits and pieces left to complete a collection so we buy lots for the few we need and we end up paying a very small fraction of what it would cost to buy that one and only figure.

The people you call "DEALER" or "SCALPER", I call "Entrepreneur" or "Opportunist", respectively.

but you misunderstand what i'm saying i classify people this way:


Dealer: one who only sells and does not care for the hobby other then to make money.

Collector: one who collects,sells,trades,one who cares about the hobby and tries to help his/her community with a better understanding of it.

You are way wrong, man. The reason a lot of people get into a certain busines is because they enjoy what they're selling. I got into owning a game store because I enjoyed games, and I wanted to be self-employed. Do I want to make money? Heck, yes! If I didn't, I couldn't stay in business. Am I evil or don't care about my hobby because I make a living (not much of) from it? NO. Obviously, you have been seriously burned in the past by somebody, and I'm sorry that happened to you. I find it irritating that people label me as "greedy" or "uncaring" because I try to stay in business. If people understood how much time and effort I put into my business, they would probably shut up. (Well...probably not....some people can't stop complaining). I put in 70+ hours a week into my business, take no vacation time (except the two times when I almost died- but I'm not counting them), have to listen to people tell me how I should run my business without the slightest clue to what it takes to run a shop, and put all of my hard-earned dollars back into my shop (well, not all since I buy Joes). Until you run your own business and find out how much hard work and heartache it is, then don't label us dealers! Thank you.

You are way wrong, man. The reason a lot of people get into a certain busines is because they enjoy what they're selling. I got into owning a game store because I enjoyed games, and I wanted to be self-employed. Do I want to make money? Heck, yes! If I didn't, I couldn't stay in business. Am I evil or don't care about my hobby because I make a living (not much of) from it? NO. Obviously, you have been seriously burned in the past by somebody, and I'm sorry that happened to you. I find it irritating that people label me as "greedy" or "uncaring" because I try to stay in business. If people understood how much time and effort I put into my business, they would probably shut up. (Well...probably not....some people can't stop complaining). I put in 70+ hours a week into my business, take no vacation time (except the two times when I almost died- but I'm not counting them), have to listen to people tell me how I should run my business without the slightest clue to what it takes to run a shop, and put all of my hard-earned dollars back into my shop (well, not all since I buy Joes). Until you run your own business and find out how much hard work and heartache it is, then don't label us dealers! Thank you.

read my descriptions carefully you would be in the collector catagory.

Mark ups are a part of any business. I'm a carpenter, & own my business. I normally charge in the ballpark of $70 p/h for labor on top of material costs. I don't make that much, but I have to charge that much. I get no benefits, buying health insurance independantly for a family of 5 is about $800 a month, and on top of that I also have to buy liability insurance for my business ($1800 per year) and I need commercial insurance on all vehicles I own (approximately double what normal full coverage is). So far this year, I have spent just under $3000 in training & licensing, & still have several hours of required time left to fill before January. I don't have paid vacation, there will never be a cost of living raise, & I spend close to 20 hours a week in driving time, paperwork, & estimates for potential jobs - there is no pay for any of that. People do sometimes ask me how I can charge so much to pound a few nails, & my only answer is that if they aren't comfortable with the prices, they can pound their own nails.

There is overhead involved with any business, collectible toys are no exception. If the seller is an honest person with a good reputation, they will get my business, if not, they probably won't be in business too long.

Mark ups are a part of any business. I'm a carpenter, & own my business. I normally charge in the ballpark of $70 p/h for labor on top of material costs. I don't make that much, but I have to charge that much. I get no benefits, buying health insurance independantly for a family of 5 is about $800 a month, and on top of that I also have to buy liability insurance for my business ($1800 per year) and I need commercial insurance on all vehicles I own (approximately double what normal full coverage is). So far this year, I have spent just under $3000 in training & licensing, & still have several hours of required time left to fill before January. I don't have paid vacation, there will never be a cost of living raise, & I spend close to 20 hours a week in driving time, paperwork, & estimates for potential jobs - there is no pay for any of that. People do sometimes ask me how I can charge so much to pound a few nails, & my only answer is that if they aren't comfortable with the prices, they can pound their own nails.

There is overhead involved with any business, collectible toys are no exception. If the seller is an honest person with a good reputation, they will get my business, if not, they probably won't be in business too long.

Amen, CGC. Dealer isn't a dirty word!

but you misunderstand what i'm saying i classify people this way:


Dealer: one who only sells and does not care for the hobby other then to make money.

Collector: one who collects,sells,trades,one who cares about the hobby and tries to help his/her community with a better understanding of it.


No, I didn't misunderstand.

I'm telling you point blank that your definitions are wrong with regards to the hobby. And I'm not the only one trying to get that message across to you.

But hey, those are your interpretations, and you can be as content with them as you want.

I'm a dealer, and I care very much for the hobby as well as ensuring my company succeeds.

John

actually i don't feel like i'm being left out of something,someone who collects and also sell to feed his hobby is ok someone who sells for a living is ok but its the sellers who while everyone is selling something for $5 and stores included is selling the same item for $10 that is what i call a dealer,also someone who has low prices then tacks in a high S&H cost i would call a dealer,a dealer is a unscrupolous seller of items that does not collect but merely sells and will go into stores buy all of an item then turn around and sell it for twice the price he paid or more.

And I swore I wouldn't get wrapped up in this. . .:rolleyes:


The people you call "DEALER" or "SCALPER", I call "Entrepreneur" or "Opportunist", respectively.

Okay Kev, I've read this one quite a few times.


Entrepreneur:
A person who organizes, operates, and assumes the risk for a business venture.


Opportunist:
One who takes advantage of any opportunity to achieve an end, often with no regard for principles or consequences.

As an enterpreneur, your business falls outside of the hobby but not apart from it. In fact, the business end actually surrounds it and feeds it. Can a business also be your hobby? Well, yes. But you certainly don't want to stall the gravy train in favor of the hobby, would you? Therefore, the business end would take the priority, and the hobby itself a backseat. With only semantics to protect.

The "opportunist" tag is a subtle moral judgement that's prone to backfire. Is this your preferred title? In the collecting community, some would argue that only theft or bootlegging that can be truly labeled as "opportunistic". And everything else is simply "innovative collecting strategy".

But some people here like Clutch II, believe there is more to it than that. That you or me can increase their collections by doing something "really bad".

ClutchII hasn't specified just what that theoretically "bad" thing is yet. . .

But self-labeling like "Opportunist" and "Playa" make collectors like him think there really is something going on that he's being kept out of. :mad:

So cut it out, you're actually adding fuel to the fire and fostering the whole dealer stigma.

-PJ

gotta love Hasbro hasn't even shipped these out and already they have a listing(several actually) on eBay

http://cgi.ebay.com/GI-JOE-ARAH-2005-COBRA-NIGHT-WATCH-6-PACK-COBRA-SOLDIER_W0QQitemZ5991259435QQcategoryZ2468QQrdZ1QQ cmdZViewItem

i wonder what will happen if Hasbro has a shipping delay due to who knows what?

gotta love Hasbro hasn't even shipped these out and already they have a listing(several actually) on eBay

http://cgi.ebay.com/GI-JOE-ARAH-2005-COBRA-NIGHT-WATCH-6-PACK-COBRA-SOLDIER_W0QQitemZ5991259435QQcategoryZ2468QQrdZ1QQ cmdZViewItem

i wonder what will happen if Hasbro has a shipping delay due to who knows what?


Brian's Toys has an account for the new Joes so they are just selling as they normally would.

But that really isn't on topic with the thread

so Brian's Toys is the only store that gets the new Joes before anyone?no other store can order them?isn't that defeating DTC practice?Does he actually have them in his possession?well if thats the case i can start selling em too like that or start selling items i see at my Local TRU disregard the fact i have them.as it goes on this Lego site i sold on if someone dared tried to do this they would be removed from the site for bad selling practices.

so Brian's Toys is the only store that gets the new Joes before anyone?

Uh?

If you don't want to order them from Brian's Toys, order them here:
http://www.hasbrotoyshop.com/ProductsByBrand.htm?BR=520&ID=16509&PG=2

or here
http://store.yahoo.com/guru-planet-store/coniwam.html

or here
http://store.yahoo.com/dragonballzcentral/cobranightwatchgijoehasbroarealamericanhero.html

or here
http://www.bigbadtoystore.com/toystan.asp?Queryid=pr645

or here
http://www.thejoecompany.com/OnLine/OnLineExclusives.htm
etc
etc

Brians Toys is hardly the only person with a Hasbro account selling these

wow other then Hasbro since they make em you have managed to show ealmost every store i consider a Dealer and who i don't buy from either in their site or on eBay.you fail to realize none of those stores has an account with Hasbro they have to wait like everyone else to get em,so they have no "IN" they just list early to try to get a jump on sales makeing it look like people might get them before anyone else when they won't they will have just paid more.that is what i call shady,and unscrupolous.

You know those aren't going to be stores right? The only way to get them is through Hasbro directly (in the first link I posted) and other online stores like the ones I listed. And all those people do have accounts with Hasbro.

So cut it out, you're actually adding fuel to the fire and fostering the whole dealer stigma.

-PJ

Come now, paul...I never called myself any of the above, and even if I did, "SCALPER" is "OPPORTUNIST", not seller, making me an ENTREPRENEUR if I went by said labels, which I don't, so unless YOU are the one referring to ME as a scalper, your whole "OPPORTUNIST" label for me is false, or just your opinion towards me. But I also don't roll my eyes and balk at the guys trying make a buck, however immorrally.

And as for the Dealer Stigma...Nothing I will ever say or do will sway any percentage of the public one way, or another. If you think I hold that kind of power, I thank you, for I don't see myself in anywhere near that high of opinion.

I am currently at the Chicago Comic Con. I have been talking to a few guys about this similar subject. One man, whom I consider a "father figure" so to speak, in the hobby (he gave me my first opportunity to set up at a REAL con) told me that I needed to make the dealer-collector distinction if I was going to survive in this hobby. He, among others I have talked to, has proven to me just how small the ACTUAL line between dealer and Collector really is, but how WIDE it is percieved. It is NOT an US AGAINST THEM philosophy on EITHER front, although it is frequently percieved that way on either side, leaving those of us that both collect and SELL hopelessly trapped in the middle. And it is a WIDE middle. I sold one of my absolute grails this weekend, something I am not proud of, but between buying a house and needing money, I had to do it. On top of that, I made an INSANE profit, one that helped prompt me to complete the sale.

So, because I sold one of my favorite, least replacable pieces (to someone who will, no doubt, sell it to another poster on this board, and i will expect a thank you email if he gets it) for a nice profit...am I a dealer, or a collector? I collected the piece because I wanted it, and could afford it...I had the OPPORTUNITY to buy it for a good price...Then later...I was given the OPPORTUNITY to sell it, within a very specific set of circumstances, that may never be repeated, for a large profit. Did I scalp an item I have been sitting on for two years? Am I any different from the casual collector who picked an item up at a flea market for $6, 2 years ago, then sold it for $40 today? Just this weekend, I was both "applauded" as a DEALER for this sale, and applauded and a wise collector for taking advantage of an opportunity to sell an item at a profit that can be rolled back into my own collection....So this thin line we are all arguing, where does it really exist?

Am I a scalper because I make money on an item that I pick up cheap at a flea market?

Am I a scalper because I sell a much loved item for much needed cash because opportunity affords me the chance the make a decent amount of money on it?

Am I a dealer because I buy extra figures to sell at a profit to help fund my collection?

Am I a dealer because I buy extra figures to sell at a profit to pay my bills?

Am I a dealer because I have a negative view of whiners who feel no profit should ever be made off the sale of a collectible toy? Because all fans are entitled to own the pieces they want at the price they want? Because the internet is the be all end all of forums of public opinion and even the most chastised geek should be revered as a pillar of knowlege and morality in the collectible universe, where opinion is law?

Am I a scalper for selling a Claymore figure, that I bought for $22, for the $55 I normally get for it?

Can scalping be considered a religion, similar to the moral entitlement brought about by fandon, worn as a badge of both courage and honor, seems to be?

Am I a collector for buying multiple of items I like?

Am I a dealer for having to buying multiples of items I don't like just to get multples of Items I do like and enjoy having multiples of?

Well, then am I a dealer for trying to sell multiples of items I don't like in an attempt to break even or (gasp) make a profit from items I don't want multiples of?

The grey areas are MUCH larger than most would want others to believe. By many definitions, anyone ever profitting from the sale or trade of a collectible toy is a SCALPER. But those who vigilantly buy everything they wish, with NO CONCERN for what they spend, how they spend it, or whatn the cost is of said items at any future date, are COLLECTORS worhty of SAINTHOOD.

I hearbye christen myself ST. KRYMSYNGSARD666, and simultaneously, the DEMON OF SCALPHOOD itself, because I feel I cannot fit comfortably in EDITHER category until the day comes when the 10 commandments of collecting are forged in polystyrene and delivered from collectible heaven itself, where no Kiddie City ever sold out or closed down, and they are open 24 hours per day. PLEASE NOTE...THIS WAS SARCASM. BACK TO MY WANT ADS.

Only then can I be honestly judged.

I eagerly await either the crowning or the stoning.

And now, Paul can accuse ME of over dramatization.

actually Krymson in regards to your toy you bought 2 years ago and sold for a profit recently does not a dealer make you,i consider a dealer someone who will buy something in a store then immediatly turn around and sell it for double or triple its value in one breath,thats a dealer in my books,but the sad thing is people pay that amount cause they don't bother to look at their store to see if the item is in or like the current situation in regards to the Cobra night force packs people(bryan's toys) are selling items they don't have for higher then the amount you can get it from Hasbro,right now,thats a dealer.

This back and forth is making my head hurt! krymsyngard666 is absolutely right. People who are dealers are never going to sway the opinions of those who hate the fact that people sell things at a profit and not cost. (of course, those people are called communists...but that's a different topic altogether!). :D I'm done trying to convince those who believe the sky is pink and the water is purple.


.....now, where's my aspirin??

Come now, paul...I never called myself any of the above...

Yes. . .you did. It's sitting right there word-for-word. No embellishing(sp?) necessary.

You sell Joes. People may call you a dealer. You prefer other terms that make the matter worse. There's nothing out of context. No twisting, nothing, zip.


And as for the Dealer Stigma...Nothing I will ever say or do will sway any percentage of the public one way, or another. If you think i hold that kind of power, i thank you, for i don't see myself in anywhere near that high of opinion.

Man. . .everything I do or say lately seems to emit alot of sway. You saying you can't do the same? This isn't a case of overreacting. We have n00bs that are super-touchy about sellers. Simple.


One man, whom I consider a "father figure" so to speak, in the hobby (he gave me my first opportunity to set up at a REAL con) told me that I needed to make the dealer=-collector distinction if i was going to survive in this hobby.

That is a collector whom you have allowed to have sway over you. You don't think this runs both ways? You are Krymsynguard666 man! :) You influence all of us. And I in turn influence. . .well, not as many. Maybe two or three in particular.


He, among others I have talked to, has proven to me just how small the ACTUAL line between dealer and Collector really is, but how WIDE it is percieved. It is NOT an US AGAINST THEM philosophy on EITHER front, althouhg it is frequently percieved that way on either side, leaving those of us that both collect and SELL hopelessly trapped in the middle.

Then you would not want to do anything to foster the dealer stigma. . .right? See my first post. Neither would I. We agree on that, right? :confused:


Am I a scalper because i make money on an item that I pick up cheap at a flea market?Am I a scalper because I sell a much loved item for much needed cash because opportunity affords me the chance the make a decent amount of money on it?Am I a dealer because i buy extra figures to sell at a profit to help fund my collection?Am i a dealer because I buy extra figures to sell at a profit to pay my bills? Am I a dealer because I have a negative view of whiners who feel no profit should ever be made off the sale of a collectible toy? Because all fans are entitled to own the pieces they want at the price they want? Because the internet is the be all end all of forums of public opinion and even the most chastised geek should be revered as a pillar of knowlege and morality in the collectible universe, where opinion is law? Am I a scalper for selling a Claymore figure, that I bought for $22. for the $55 I normally get for it? Can scalping be considered a religion, similar to the moral entitlement brought about by fandon, worn as a badge of both courage and honor, seems to be? Am I a collector for buying multiple of items i like?(??)
Am I a dealer for having to buying multiples of items i don't like just to get multples of Items I do like and enjoy having multiples of?well, then am i a dealer for trying to sell multiples of items i don't like in an attempt to break even or (gasp) make a profit from items i don't want multiples of?

I can sum up all these questions (yep, every one) with: Why would you then add fuel to the fire by using an incendiary label like "opportunist"? :confused:

Maybe I'm using the wrong dictionary. . .


And now, Paul can accuse ME of over dramatization.

No, because that would be a diversionary cop-out. ;) I won't treat you the same way I would not want to be treated myself.

Not too long ago, I posted on another recent thread that as adult toy-collectors we're "schizophrenic" (for lack of a better term). Emotionally torn between the love of a child for the thing we collect, and the priorities of a capitalistic adult. I see the grey line. I see it very clearly. That's the same thing you're trying to express.

That nerve is raw and exposed all the time this subject is brought up. My first post in this thread simply cautioned that more "labeling" adds fuel to the fire.

Side "A" cries, "SCALPER"!

Side "B", "I prefer 'opportunist'!" >B-)

Side "A" gets confused, looks up the word, then gets even angrier. "Opportunist" has a negative connotation.

Not an opinion, no drama, no spin here. That's all it is.

-PJ

these topics are so stupid.

who cares if your one thing or another?

im a collector who is now a dealer. big deal. i still trade, offer deals, sell at a loss, etc

like just about every other dealer has done and will do again.

is brianstoys bad? nope. they are a business. and a very successful one at that. you dont go to walmart and say "hey your stuff is to expensive..sell it to me for less"

dealers are a good thing people! who else will take the time money and effort needed to find or piece together those c-8-9 complete figures vehicles card sets etc

we mark up our prices because we spend time and effort providing a service to the community. that simple. can you buy a lot on ebay for 100.00 that has 20 figures in it and one of them is a viper? you bet. but are you guarenteed to get a c-9 complete figure? nope.

we may charge a bit more than toysrus but to foreign collectors we offer an invaluable service.

your not just paying "scalper" prices or "dealer" prices

your paying for a service.

is that bad? i dont think so.

well i know someone got a good deal on this lot http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=2467&item=5989950566

Yes. . .you did. It's sitting right there word-for-word. No embellishing(sp?) necessary.


-PJ

I just reread my posts, Paul. I didn't call myself anything, even once.

If I did, find it for me.

No other comments, I am too tired for more verbal swordplay.

I just reread my posts, Paul. I didn't call myself anything, even once. If I did, find it for me.

Then you missed your entire opening post. . .making me drag it down and show you instead of you doing it yourself. Thanks.



The people you call "DEALER" or "SCALPER", I call "Entrepreneur" or "Opportunist", respectively.
__________________
Selling Joes all day onnna' 'bay...
Armageddon Toys (http://stores.ebay.com/Armageddon-Toys_W0QQsspagenameZL2QQtZkm)


BTW, I also quoted your post word-for-word in message #50. You have very selective listening skills.

You are a seller (see tag).

Ergo, the people (such as Clutch) that call others (such as yourself) "dealer" or "scalper" (caps omitted, hope that isn't taking it out of context), you prefer to call "Entrepreneur" or "Opportunist", respectively.

Why would you use a pejorative on others that you would not use on yourself?

See my first follow-up, I hate repeating myself for people who are willfully ignorant. I'm convinced you can do better than this.


No other comments, I am too tired for more verbal swordplay.

It's not a game. Words matter, & it's all we have to understand one another.

-PJ

Wow, Paul, "willfully ignorant" is a strong term for what I thought was a friendly exchange. Guess you got the shot of the night.

I sell toys, but still don't see myself as a dealer. I did not call myself a dealer. I did not call myself a seller. I did not call myself an entrepreneur, scalper or opportunist. I am a collector with extra items to sell. If others call me or see me as a dealer, scalper, opportunist or entrepreneur, I can do nothing about it. My views of such titles do not refer to myself, they refer to how I view others, and if I am not viewing myself in that light to begin with, then how would I, or could I, apply my "enlightenedly adjusted" opinions to myself?

That is my story, and I am sticking to it. if OTHERS choose to call me something different (as you have) then there is nothing I can do about this. So now, I will assume i am seen by others as a "willfully ignorant opportunist". I might lose sleep over that. Or not.

I sell toys, but still don't see myself as a dealer.

No, you would prefer the pejorative: "opportunist".


I did not call myself a dealer.

Selling. . .dealing. I suppose they're all words you do not prefer now.


I did not call myself a seller.

Despite the fact you sell toys. :rolleyes:


I did not call myself an entrepreneur, scalper or opportunist.

Even though there are some terms there that you prefer for those who do sell. . .which you don't. :confused: Got it.


I am a collector with extra items to sell.

But keep in mind the fact that he's not an individual who sells. He's not a seller. Got it. (They're gonna lock me away in the cellar)


If others call me or see me as a dealer, scalper, opportunist or entrepreneur, I can do nothing about it.

Cool! The verb doesn't fit the action. Got it.

Okay, we've fallen right down the rabbit hole, but I don't mind. . .


My views of such titles do not refer to myself, they refer to how I view others,

But the terms don't apply both ways. . .at least in your reality. Got it.


and if I am not viewing myself in that light to begin with, then how would I, or could I, apply my "enlightenedly adjusted" opinions to myself?

Um, you. . .couldn't? That's soooo circular I'm getting dizzy. Both views/opinions obviously apply to the same object: yourself. Are you drinking again?


That is my story, and I am sticking to it. if OTHERS choose to call me something different (as you have) then there is nothing I can do about this.

At least my comments about your (deliberate) behavior leaves your intellect and dignity intact.


So now, I will assume i am seen by others as a "willfully ignorant opportunist". I might lose sleep over that. Or not.

I repeat: At least my comments about your (deliberate) behavior leaves your intellect and dignity intact.

You're putting up the wall on purpose. Talk to the hand? No problem.

-PJ

(They're gonna lock me away in the cellar)-PJ

Welcome to my world of toy enlightenment! I knew some gentle hammer strikes could bring you around to our side. Now you can attend barbecues at Plastic Dream's house, summer in the Hamptons with Brian's Toys, go windsurfing with Mastercollector, and never worry about how people view you on line.

My, these exchanges can be fun. Ever notice people seem to stop posting when we're going at it?

So, basically, what we have here are a bunch of collectors, sellers, dealers, entrepreneurs and opportunists, right? Everybody agrees that they, individually, fit into the collectors group, right? The next 3, the sellers, dealers, entrepreneurs, don't seem like harsh labels to me, but it's safe to say that very few want to apply these labels to themselves, right? The last group, the opportunists, well, it might not sound too great, but really, it's just finding a niche & filling it. Nobody is forced to buy from people using any of these labels. I guess that personally, I'll go with the collector label, but I might also tack on trader (not traitor ;) ).

Accurate summary?

Accurate summary?

Confusing to say the least. You'd think that people who offer collectible toys in exchange for hard currency would want us buyers to take them at their stated word, and not give us a runaround in ambiguity.:mad:

If they don't want their buyers to see them as credible human beings, this is a great way to do it.

-PJ

or they are just being sarcastic

these types of posts always bring about these types of arguments

and whats the point?

who cares what YOU see YOURSELF as?

its nobodies business but yours.

lets stop bashing and accusing and belittling each other and get back to topic

Okay Curt, back on-topic it is. . .


So my question really becomes at what point is someone labeled as a DEALER? I consider buying and selling of JOES a hobby that supports my collecting goals that I spoke of above.

Well, Curt doesn't seem to have a problem with the label. And he's usually clear about what he posts. I believe he says what he means & means what he says when he posts.

This also reflects his character as a "dealer" in a positive way.

Which is the basic reason why trust and clarity are so important. And abuse of such basic traits give rise to the more negative labels. If you're throwing the topic around just for the sake of sarcasm, then I see dealers who're taking the issue very lightly and prove themselves to have a suspect credibility overall. I fail to trust them because of their continual "deliberately ambiguous" talk. No apparent honesty, and all (deliberately placed) doubt.

If you can't trust someone across the fence in casual conversation, you can't trust 'em in the marketplace with your hard earned money. Period.

Edit:

sar·casm (sär'kăz'əm) n.

A cutting, often ironic remark intended to wound.
A form of wit that is marked by the use of sarcastic language and is intended to make its victim the butt of contempt or ridicule.
The use of sarcasm.
Yep, & that's something the world just doesn't have enough of already. . .

-PJ

or they are just being sarcastic


dude, shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.......You'll give it all away...


Well, Paul, if you don't like sarcasm, it is good we've never done any business. But don't worry, I don 't charge extra for it. I feel the world is entitled to free sarcasm for all, and I provide all I can.


I am gonna go sit in my credibility gap and look at the want ads.

And that isn't sarcasm. I am there right now.

I believe everyone is entittled to respect. About a year and half ago when I couln't get any Cobra Infantry forces sets I made a post about how I saw some guys as greedy profiteering animals. I regreted making that statement. I believe that in a capitalist democratic society everyone should be free to pursue their own avenues of making money. I may disagree with some decisions they make ethically but then again thats life. So if a guy wants to sell a figure for $25 that I think is only worth $10 I shouldn't get upset because I don't want to or can't buy it. If some guys wants to pay that much more power to him. Whether a person is a dealer or a seller or an amalgamation of the two is really irrevelant. For me I only care about where I can get good deals, so if Brian Toys or any one else is selling something that I want and I am willing to pay then I am going to buy it. I think there is way to much animosity and player hating in the Joe collecting community. There are people that don't like the army builders because they think we take all the figures when they only want just one. Then there are those who don't like the guys that sell AFA graded stuff ; claiming that they drive up the cost of the MOC figures. Now are we going to hate people who are labeled as dealers? I say lets give it a rest and show more love in this hobby community guys.