Now, I know that Hasbro released him as 'Cobra Commander.' I'm also well aware that the packaging makes zero note of him being Fred...Even though we all know he's supposed to be.

But really, would it have been hard to throw in a note somewhere on the page about him, maybe in the version history? Something along the lines of...

"It should be noted that this version of Cobra Commander portrays the comic character Fred VII (a Crimson Guard) who used a battle suit in order to pose as Cobra Commander. While this 'is' a version of Cobra Commander, it should be noted that he is not 'the' Cobra Commander, rather, just Fred VII posing as him."

I mean...To me, this feels like if Hasbro had released the SpyTroops Shipwreck disguised as CC by using CC's body and including a helmet, and naming him "Cobra Commander." It's basically being ignorant to the 'true' origin of this version of Cobra Commander.

Now, the thing is, a lot of us already know who this is and who it's supposed to be--Fred--but what I fear is that some people who are new to the series and/or don't know of the comic history will see this entry and be confused, thinking that the Fred head mould is meant to represent Cobra Commander...which it isn't.

I'm just saying, it's something that Bugs me. The note would be nice, is all.

I also thought it was a little strange. With no official mention of Fred, it's almost like giving Cobra Commander a face, & that just seems wrong to me. :confused:

It's not so much the problem with giving CC a face--that much I could deal with. It's the fact that it's not even supposed to be CC, and YoJoe doesn't mention it period.

The filecard does specifically mention Fred, but only in creating the suit, and the quote at the bottom mentions that Cobra higher-ups are suspicious that it might be somebody else--but I still really think the page itself should mention something about it.

It's our little "in-joke", get it?

You just don't realize just how many Joe collectors are out there that have never read the Marvel comic. Hundreds at least!

Thus making "Fred" our little secret. ;)

And anyone who passes the three pack up? That's their sad loss because it's a subtle tip o' the hat to the man who put ARAH on top to begin with. :D

-PJ

Hopefully people will read the comic book that he is packaged with, and they will see that he is an "imposter" as the Baroness says, and that he is not the true Cobra Commander.

the figure packaging and filecard ID this figure as "cobra commander".

according to hasbro, its cobra commander.

the archives will list this figure as cobra commander.

everyone can use the figure in their joe-verse as they see fit though. :)

excercise that imagination!!

Well, yeah, but still...Some kinna note mentioning that he was based on the portrayl of Fred and 'not' CC would be nice, is all.

It's similar to how the comic pack Flagg is listed as another version of the 90s Flagg...Just like with CC, his filecard doesn't make mention of him actually being the 'other' General Flagg, and no mention is made that he's actually a different character.

*shrugs.* Meh, just one man's opinion. I'm not saying people *shouldn't* use him as CC, just that he's technically supposed to be Fred, and this 'should' be mentioned somewhere on the page.

whelp, the consensus amoung the webstaff is that yojoe doesn't deal in opinions.

again, feel free to use this figure as fred...cobra commander...or david carouso :) .... but for the purpose of the archives - this figure listing will remain as is.

not trying to be snippy....just laying it out there.

Phooey. :(

I'm just saying, this is really the effect of Hasbro naming a guy "Snake Eyes," except it's clearly a Storm Shadow figure in every sense of the word--and then a designer says that this is supposed to be Snake Eyes disguised as Storm Shadow. And you don't mention that on the page for the figure.

It's not my 'opinion' that this figure is Fred VII--it clearly is meant to be. Hasbro's filecard is tongue in cheek--or it could even possibly be because they couldn't copyright "Fred VII" (or didn't want to expel the effort/money to do so).

It's like the two versions of Sidetrack. They're two different guys--with the same code name. This is almost the exact same thing.

Meh. I guess this will remain one of my few problems with YoJoe.

YoJoe.com is an archive. All we do is archive every aspect of Joe that we can. We will follow what a character is named and/or what a file card says. Technically it is an opinion in this fact, the figure is named Cobra Commander. The File card does not say point blank this is Fred. So we will deal in those facts. For whatever reason Hasbro choose not to name this figure Fred or Fred in Cobra Commander Battle Armor, but Cobra Commander. Maybe they are coming from the angle that no one in Cobra knows this is Fred, so as far as the Cobra army is concerned this is Cobra Commander. Who knows. Those are all guesses and opinions based off a fact.

Now everyone before me has done their own thing, but I want to keep Yo Joe! as fact oriented as possible. If someone from Hasbro would confirm this is suppose to be another character then what they named it, we will add the note.

On a side note, and please correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't it stated in the comic how all the CG's had the same face and that that face was also CC's? If that is true then this could be CC's face. Like I said, I could be wrong on that fact as I have not read every single issue, most, but not all.

--
Devon

On a side note, and please correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't it stated in the comic how all the CG's had the same face and that that face was also CC's? If that is true then this could be CC's face. Like I said, I could be wrong on that fact as I have not read every single issue, most, but not all.

--
Devon

All I am aware of is that each CG had plastic surgery to look the same. I dont recall it ever saying this face was the same as Cobra Commander. If this was the case, the Baroness wouldn't have known it was not Cobra Commander when she had Fred VII remove his helmet upon his arrival to Cobra Island.

I don't get exactly what the issue is here. And I'm the type that's very analytical (which starts with "anal") in my thinking. :D ;)

Fred really was THE Cobra Commander for a certain length of time. Not only because he "played the part" of supreme leader, but because Baroness pulled the strings in getting Cobra to actually obey him. Just as the filecard states, he really is CC --but some are suspicious. During the Marvel run, his role as imposter involved actual substitutionary leadership. . .no?

So while he didn't get the position as CEO through "fair play", I ask: "When is it anything but fair in COBRA?" ;)

-PJ

All I am aware of is that each CG had plastic surgery to look the same. I dont recall it ever saying this face was the same as Cobra Commander. If this was the case, the Baroness wouldn't have known it was not Cobra Commander when she had Fred VII remove his helmet upon his arrival to Cobra Island.


Ahh, good point. So it must have just been that I read that all CG's had same face then. Thanks for clearing that one up for me.

--
Devon

On a side note, and please correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't it stated in the comic how all the CG's had the same face and that that face was also CC's? If that is true then this could be CC's face. Like I said, I could be wrong on that fact as I have not read every single issue, most, but not all.

--
Devon

When Cobra Commander makes his return from the dead in issue 100, there is a flashback showing a Fred digging up his body to help him recover. Both the Fred and CC have the exact same face, which I was thought was a neat idea; CC made all the Freds look like him for either egomaniacal or security reasons.

Most fans have dismissed this as a mistake by the artist, although I don't know if Larry Hama or anyone at Marvel admitted this. It does contradict the scene when Baroness knows Fred VII is an imposter by seeing his face. However, I've always liked the idea and use it it my Joe universe.

Features-wise, maybe the CGs looked like Cobra Commander, but wasn't his actual hair-color black? Billy's hair is black, his mom's was brown as I recall... Of course, wasn't it assumed at one point that "Fred Broca" was probably CC's real name?

I don't remember them saying that the Fred faces were based on CC's, although I could be wrong. And yeah, why would it be stated in YoJoe archives that it is Fred if the package dosn't? Maybe a footnote would be cool, but what's the point?

When Cobra Commander makes his return from the dead in issue 100, there is a flashback showing a Fred digging up his body to help him recover. Both the Fred and CC have the exact same face, which I was thought was a neat idea; CC made all the Freds look like him for either egomaniacal or security reasons.

Most fans have dismissed this as a mistake by the artist, although I don't know if Larry Hama or anyone at Marvel admitted this. It does contradict the scene when Baroness knows Fred VII is an imposter by seeing his face. However, I've always liked the idea and use it it my Joe universe.

Precisely. I once mailed Mr. Hama when the Marvel run was still going and asked him about this. Never got a response. I think we are meant to draw our own conclusions. The concept is very interesting and fitting with the character of the original Cobra Commander, but there is the small inconsistency of the Baroness recognizing Fred as an imposter...

i've been quiet on this thread to long :p as it goes the Fred Series CG's are not an exact duplicate of CC,but and here is where it gets intrigueing,i never said Broca wasn't CC's last name,remember CC lost someone important to him that helped send him over the edge,also remember CC is an egomaniac too many allusions to his past who he is what his name is,or if he is even the person some thinks he is.so if you were an egomaniac who lost someone dear to you and you had money to throw away,and you missed that person,what would you do?

snip...
so if you were an egomaniac who lost someone dear to you and you had money to throw away,and you missed that person,what would you do?
Have their ashes turned into a diamond, then launch it into space? :D

Maybe a footnote would be cool, but what's the point?

That's really all I wanted--a little footnote. Just something saying "This guy's supposed to be Fred in CC's armour," is really it. I wasn't asking for the entire thing to be recategorized or that it not be counted as an 'official' version of Cobra Commander...Just one of those minor things.

But, the powers that be have said no, so. :P

how about Cobra"Fred"Commander ?