I dont read the comics, but thanks to DanielMD06 I've been catchng up
on some interesting characters that were never made into action figures

just recently we got our very fist Fred Clone in Battle Armor CC Style
in one of the latest releases of the Comic 3-packs

my question is, he was referred to as Fred VII
Now does that mean that he was the 7th Crimson Guard to undergo
plastic surgery

OR

Does it mean there are different series of FREDs who look alike
but dont look like anybody else from the other series??
Like a Fred II doesnt look like a Fred V etc etc
but a Fred III looks exactly like another Fred III

or was this even explored? :confused:

The "Fred Series" are all of the individual Freds: Fred I, Fred II...Fred VII, etc. All of the Freds were made to look alike. Fred II (Wade Collins) replaced the late Fred I

http://www.myuselessknowledge.com/joe/charguide-f.html
http://www.myuselessknowledge.com/joe/fred7.html


When one becomes a member of the Crimson Guard, he gives up his past life, and takes up a new identity. In the past, many Guardsman underwent plastic surgery to share the same face as the others in their "series", so that they could easily replace a lost Guardsman and allow him to retain his status in the community. The most famous of these was the Fred series, patterned after the first "Fred Broca", whose name was even an alias. Fred VII was one of these men, and he became the most influential of these Guardsman, though few knew his identity.

I guess this means many Siegies are part of their own series. Like the "Bill series", the "John series", etc.

From my understanding, the Fred's were all the same. Patterned after the original Cobra Commander. So VII was the 7th one.

They were somewhat convincing. Spirit recognized another Fred walking in a mall, yet the first Fred's kids were able to see he wasn't their dad.

It was never mentioned if there was different series.

I can provide plenty of scans on Fred in order and a flashback where you can see Cobra Commander's face after he was unburried, if you like...

Thanks for the quote, Riley
I wasnt sure what the number signified


I can provide plenty of scans on Fred in order and a flashback where you can see Cobra Commander's face after he was unburried, if you like...
If it wouldnt be too much trouble!! :o

Not a problem, but save them on your computer if you want them, I delete them after a week or so to save space on my account.

Here Cobra Commander is introducing the Fred clones in a rally... this is the first Fred...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v139/xerofall/GI%20Joe/m029_06.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v139/xerofall/GI%20Joe/m029_07.jpg

He explains they are regular guys, business men with families... and they are spies, even the wife and kids are in on it...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v139/xerofall/GI%20Joe/m029_07.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v139/xerofall/GI%20Joe/gijoeissue30dec1984_10_0001.jpg

Destro and Firefly get the first Fred to go with them to get Snake-eyes, Spirit takes Fred out...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v139/xerofall/GI%20Joe/m031_20.jpg

He's not quite dead and after Firefly, Destro and Fred escape, Fred returns t finish Snake-eyes off...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v139/xerofall/GI%20Joe/m032_16.jpg

The Soft Master explains later that Fred simply lost his hate and that was all that was keeping him alive... so he drops dead.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v139/xerofall/GI%20Joe/m032_21.jpg

Of course he gets replaced and the kids see right through it...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v139/xerofall/GI%20Joe/m032_24.jpg

Now there's a lot more story to the replacement Fred, but that's a different story and a bit too complicated to get into.

So fast forward to Fred VII, he ran a car repair front in Denver, CC drove to see him to get his son Billy some help. CC realizes his son was more important and left Cobra to start a new life...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v139/xerofall/GI%20Joe/GiJoe-61-11.jpg

Fred VII didn't appreciate his new leaf, so he shot and buried him. Little did they know at that time that CC had Fred VIII (8) follow him. So Fred VII assumes CC's identity.

He goes to Cobra Island not realizing the Baroness knows CC's real identity.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v139/xerofall/GI%20Joe/gijoearealamericanheromarvelv1064oc.jpg

So the Baroness fakes it along with him to share the power of leadership...

Fred VII was a joke as a leader and didn't get much respect, until one mission in space...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v139/xerofall/GI%20Joe/m065_16.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v139/xerofall/GI%20Joe/m065_18.jpg

From then on he had their loyalty. Of course then the Civil war happened, blah blah...

Fast forward again to when the real CC gets back in the picture...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v139/xerofall/GI%20Joe/m098_07.jpg

That explains everything and you can see his real face.

This is the Cliff Notes version and I do not do the story line justice, but this is just a little bit and I hope you enjoy...

:)

Sorry some of those are small... I need to upgrade my account so they don't auto-reduce the pics.

If anyone needs a specific page I posted above, please email me at xerofall@comcast.net

Thanks.

Thanks for the quote, Riley

That's Mr. Riley ;) :p

From my understanding, the Fred's were all the same. Patterned after the original Cobra Commander. So VII was the 7th one.

They were somewhat convincing. Spirit recognized another Fred walking in a mall, yet the first Fred's kids were able to see he wasn't their dad.

It was never mentioned if there was different series.

I can provide plenty of scans on Fred in order and a flashback where you can see Cobra Commander's face after he was unburried, if you like...

I didn't think that they were supposed to look like Cobra Commander, because when the Baroness saw Fred take off the helmet in front of her she saw that he wasn't the real Cobra Commander.

when the Baroness saw Fred take off the helmet in front of her she saw that he wasn't the real Cobra Commander.

This happened in Yearbook #4, I think.

Ostensibly, the "Fred series" Siegies were modeled after Fred Broca - one of the original Crimson Guardsman shown in the pics above. The Cobra Commander look-alike phenomenon was a mistake on the part of the artist, and I think that some reader might have won a No-Prize over the affair.

Wade Collins was the first to get the plastic surgery, and he picked up the moniker "Fred II." The general idea behind all of this was that if Fred Broca (or whoever) got killed, then another CG could seamlessly take his place. This was actually a smart move on Cobra's part, because lots of the Crimson Guardsmen were involved in very important missions, and were quite irreplaceable to the terrorist organization.

There were other named series of Crimson Guardsmen (though only the Fred series featured in the original Marvel comics), but there were also plenty of "regular" Crimson Guardsmen who weren't involved in the plastic surgery schemes.

I guess this means many Siegies are part of their own series. Like the "Bill series", the "John series", etc.

Exactly. This was precisely my understanding of the comic Siegies.

so Wade Collins is Fred II
Sean Collins is Wade's son & eventually becomes Kamakura

what is Fred VII's real name?

so Wade Collins is Fred II
Sean Collins is Wade's son & eventually becomes Kamakura

what is Fred VII's real name?

(1) Wade Collins was once "Fred II."

(2) Sean Collins was born Sean Broca. He eventually becomes Kamakura (Snake-Eyes's apprentice). He changed his name when Wade Collins became his step-father. Wade Collins married Fred Broca's widow, and consequently took Fred's son and daughter as his own.

(3) We never learn Fred VII's true identity.

The Cobra Commander look-alike phenomenon was a mistake on the part of the artist, and I think that some reader might have won a No-Prize over the affair.

That might be where I read that, I coulda swore I read it in the comics, maybe it was in the letters page at the end, lol. :D

That's a pretty interesting idea - it could have been a contingency plan on CC's part, similar to what Sadam Hussein did - creating lookalikes to help him escape persecution should Cobra ever be defeated. With the CGs being his most loyal bodyguards, that would fit in.

In the new Snake Eyes: Declassified series, we meet Cobra Commander before he started Cobra - he does bear a resemblance to Fred, though it's not identical.

When CC came back from the grave, I think he revealed there were 12 Fred's total, and each one was spying on the others - which would also explain how Fred I got replaced so quickly with Fred II.

But the Baroness did recognize that Fred VII was an imposter right off the bat, as soon as he was unmasked - and she is one of the few people who knew what CC looked like.

Maybe she knew Fred was an imposture because the real CC wouldn't remove his helmet.

... didnt only the REAL CC know the secret code to disarm the explosives?
Fred knew too!!

and before Fred shot CC in the back, wasnt there a pic of him in the comics
with glasses & a ponytail looking like a hippie?

... didnt only the REAL CC know the secret code to disarm the explosives?
Fred knew too!!

and before Fred shot CC in the back, wasnt there a pic of him in the comics
with glasses & a ponytail looking like a hippie?

(1) Fred VII would certainly have known the deactivation codes for the helmet explosives - he was the designer for the battle armor. He designed Billy's original prosthetic leg and the Cobra Pogo, too.

In issue #84, we learn that Zartan has also made the discovery of the helmet code, because his red ninjas actually rip the armored helmet off of Fred VII's head without disarming it - much to Fred's alarm. Zartan goes on to reveal his origin in this issue.

(2) The "hippie" picture in the comics was actually of Cobra Commander himself. In issue #55, Cobra Commander and Destro make use of false beards, moustaches, sunglasses, and civilian clothing to travel incognito across the country. In the issue where Cobra Commander gets shot in the back (#61), the Commander is seen wearing sunglasses, and a long moustache - not to mention sporting a ponytail, too. For what it's worth, he uses this same disguise a third time in issue #127.

I didn't think that they were supposed to look like Cobra Commander, because when the Baroness saw Fred take off the helmet in front of her she saw that he wasn't the real Cobra Commander.

Exactly.

The Baroness served as Cobra Commander's right arm throughout the early years of the terrorist organization. She knows perfectly well what the true Commander looks like underneath his mask - she even watches him change from hood to battle helmet in an early issue of the comics.

She recognizes the potential to exploit Fred VII's arrival by playing along with his gambit and thereby further increasing her own (already considerable) power and influence in Cobra. It's only later, in one of the captions Xerofall provided above, that Fred VII comes into his own.

...Zartan has also made the discovery of the helmet code, because his red ninjas actually rip the armored helmet off of Fred VII's head without disarming it
WHOA!! wait up, Zartan has his own Red Ninjas??? :confused:
Arent Red Ninjas strictly Arashikage? Oh man, maybe i should start
reading the comics!! :p

WHOA!! wait up, Zartan has his own Red Ninjas??? :confused:
Arent Red Ninjas strictly Arashikage? Oh man, maybe i should start
reading the comics!! :p

Zartan infiltrated the Arashikage clan and became an apprentice, if I recall correctly for the sword smith, he was sent by CC to kill Snake-eyes.

I can get a bunch of scans put online later tonight.

WHOA!! wait up, Zartan has his own Red Ninjas??? :confused:
Arent Red Ninjas strictly Arashikage? Oh man, maybe i should start
reading the comics!!

Of course you should start reading the comics, Don. ;)

The Red Ninjas are all surviving members of the Arashikage Clan. They didn't all hold together, though.

A handful actually did decide to serve Zartan - even though he was the actual murderer of the Hard Master! Why? They blame Snake-Eyes for the downfall of the Arashikage Clan, and Storm Shadow for bringing Snake-Eyes to Japan to begin with. You can check out Marvel issue #91 for a bit more of this.

This concept has lain dormant for years, but is currently being explored in the new Snake-Eyes: Declassified series from Devil's Due. It may be that Firefly is at the root of much of the fragmentation and dissension in the surviving Arashikage Clan members.

Red Ninjas are sprinkled about in more than one story arc from Marvel, though...Slice, Dice, and a group of Red Ninjas were setting up shop in the Silent Castle at one point, too. Firefly was leading them, and took the title "Red Master."

There are probably very few surviving Red Ninjas left, but just when you think they are all gone, another group of them surfaces.

Edit: Another good Red Ninja story is Marvel issue #85 (a silent issue), where a group of them attempt to assassinate Storm Shadow at the behest of Zartan.

Zartan infiltrated the Arashikage clan and became an apprentice, if I recall correctly for the sword smith, he was sent by CC to kill Snake-eyes.

Yup.

The origin of Zartan is revealed in issue #84. He goes to the mystic swordsmith Professor Onihashi and becomes an apprentice - he doesn't techincally infiltrate the Arashikage Clan, but does the next best thing and gains close proximity to it. His plan is to get close to Snake-Eyes and murder him. Cobra Commander has hired this "cosmic biker hitman" on the advice of Firefly, who has already been hired by Cobra Commander for the same murder.

Zartan attempts to repent of his past life after building a sword with the Professor, but is blackmailed by Cobra Commander into fufilling his job. Despite this, he fails and accidentally murders the Hard Master instead of Snake-Eyes - destroying the Arashikage Clan as it once had been.

Professor Onihashi commits suicide after learning of Zartan's attack. Zartan doesn't learn that Onihashi actually forgave him his dirty deed until a later confrontation between himself and the Blind Master.

So is CC a Fred-lookalike, or is that wrong? Now I'm confused...:confused:

In one page of the comic, he looks very much like the Fred Clones, I think that was where the confusion came from...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v139/xerofall/GI%20Joe/m098_07.jpg

I figured it was like with Saddam and other people, he has look-alikes to confuse snipers and stuff.

I could try asking Larry Hama about it, but I hate bothering him with GI Joe questions, hehe.:p

So is CC a Fred-lookalike, or is that wrong?

No. I was trying to explain this in my first posts. The "Fred series" Crimson Guardsmen (all of them) are modeled after the first Crimson Guardsman in the series (who was actually the first Crimson Guardsman period) - Fred Broca.

Cobra Commander does not resemble these men. The pic Xerofall just posted was purely a mistake on the part of the GI Joe comic artist - albeit a fun one.