Sigma 6 + $15 = Annoying Pile Of Garbage [Archive] - YoJoe.com Forums

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frozen_nd
01-07-2006, 10:14 PM
Since the only figure I’ll pretty much pick up in any form is Cobra Commander, I picked up the Sigma 6 version today. $14.76 at Wal-Mart.

So I get home and proceed to remove the figure from the packaging. What a pain in the rear! It was similar to trying to unpackage a Transformer. Tons of tape & twisty ties. Got really old and annoying after 10 minutes. (I’m slow. Guess I’m not as coordinated and not able to rush to get the figure out. I don’t care to break anything.) Pre-year 2000 figures didn’t have this problem. (Don’t get me started on the post-2000 2-figure packs.) Granted, older figures didn’t look as “cool” in the packaging. They were not “posed”. But I don’t care what the “M.O.C. figure” looks like. I want it out of the packaging so I can display it, pose it, and use it. I can’t imagine someone under the age of 10 trying to unpackage this thing.

When I was younger, I ENJOYED putting together a joe vehicle as a child. (semi-snap-together model). It provided me some enjoyment. It gave me a sense of accomplishment to put the vehicle together and apply the stickers. It was not a “JOB”. Unpackaging this figure (and Transformer toys) is a JOB. The number of twisty ties, “rubber bands”, tape, …. I don’t care for it.

So after it’s all said & done, I have the “toy” on one side and the “post-consumer waste” on the other. I looked both over and immediately thought to myself, “I paid $15 for a pile of GARBAGE!!!” Listed is a summary of the packaging:

- hard plastic sleeve
- decorative cardboard sleeve (“filecard” was on the back. Guess that’s not “waste”.)
- thick backing cardboard insert
- plastic insert endcaps
- plastic straps holding the package together
- plastic hanger
- clear, thin, “stretchy bands” to hold pieces / pose stuff
- various plastic inserts to support/pose figure
- 3 plastic coated metal twist ties
- 2 plastic “washers” for twist ties
- plastic bag for case handles
- tape to hold everything else in place

I understand that some packaging is necessary. But for the sheer amount that came with this figure? That’s just wrong. I stopped by Target & K-Mart after I’d acquired this. They had newer figures in (wave 2 or something). But the packaging was different. No endcaps (weapons case) to the packaging. Just backing board with glued on front plastic. These figures were listed at $11.99. (Someone must have had the same thoughts I did and told Hasbro.)

So in a sense, I paid $3 for either:
a) The weapons case with foam insert.
or
b) A bunch of packaging.

Personally, I’ll go with option B.

Yes, Sigma 6 is geared more towards younger people. I prefer to collect 3.75” figures.
But I also think that substituting common sense for “looking cool” is really annoying and stupid. To make a toy annoying/extremely time consuming to get out of its packaging and to also pay a hefty price for that packaging is WRONG. Hasbro possibly looks to be changing that with the new packages.

Has anybody else picked up Sigma 6 figures and felt this way? Anybody else have any comments to throw in?
This ended up being more of a rant than something productive but it’s something that really irked me.

(P.S. There are some things I do LIKE about the Sigma 6 line but I’ll save them for a different post.)

goodguyswearblack9
01-07-2006, 10:20 PM
Sigma Six is cool to me especially because it coexists along side the DTC line. I have Kamakura, Snake, and Storm Shadow so far. Can't wait to get more. While not as cool as the 3 3/4 line, they are kinda fun to mess around with.

AlternateUniverse Steeler
01-07-2006, 10:25 PM
I don't like the way it was done. the packaging is also part of it. it seems like a costly waste. Too expensive. And why the bleep do we need all of the twist ties an such? I mean you need a hacksaw to aoen some toys these days. I miss the days where one rip and it was time to play.

82to87Joes
01-07-2006, 11:55 PM
im confused, which picture is of the toy and which is of the garbage?

flash70
01-08-2006, 01:20 AM
I agree Hasbro is taking Fans of Sigma Six line of figures for $5.00 too $6.00 on packaging alone. Its a huge waste man let me tell you. I could see them sell these guys for $7.99 at the most.

FireFox91
01-08-2006, 01:38 AM
I'm really confused about this post. You said you don't like the Sigma 6 figure you got but your complaint was almost all about the packaging. I agree that the 27 layers of packaging is unnessesary. Off hand, it seems like the only significant different between the $10 figures and the $15 figures is the weapons case that is part of the packaging. Otherwise they seem to come with similar amounts of equipment. $5 for a weapons case? No thanks. But hey what about the figures? Some are good like the Ninja Showdown 2 pack I just got. Some are really bad like Long Range and the new Storm Shadow.

Dakemesh
01-08-2006, 01:41 AM
Well, you've got the Commando assortment, which is the one that comes with the foot locker and all the extra packaging at 15 bucks, and then the regular soldiers which come on card backs for 11 bucks. The Commando assortment wasn't just for the first wave, as you've seen CC and Long Range among others come that way, while the BATs and Kamakura, etc come carded.

I'll be the first to admit that all the packaging is a pain in the tuchus. Supposedly this helps keep costs lower by making it harder to steal the figure out of the package in the store. Just imagine how much more expensive it could be.

I'm with you though. I loved assembling the toys and applying the stickers back in the day. I was an avid model builder anyway, and that was half the fun.

frozen_nd
01-08-2006, 02:12 AM
I'm really confused about this post. You said you don't like the Sigma 6 figure you got but your complaint was almost all about the packaging.
<SNIP>


I did not say that I was disappointed in the Sigma 6 figure I acquired. I am disappointed in the COST of the figure and the superfluous amount of material used in the packaging of it.

There are a few things I'm finding quite nice about the figures (particularly the articulation). Reread the last line of my original post.

=====================
Stupid free web services. Attached is the pic of the "garbage".

statesofeuphoria
01-08-2006, 06:05 AM
I agree. i dig the S6 figs, but I think at least 50% of the cost is packaging. Give me a plain white box with line art, I don't care. Just keep the cost down.

bigklop
01-08-2006, 08:49 AM
Agreed on the packaging, total waste.....on the other hand, I really like these figures. I didn't think I would as I generally tend to stay away from anything taller than marvel legends, but the sigma 6 figures really are cool and fun to mess around with. Plus my 9 year old son really likes them, and watches the cartoon......

With that said, I WISH they were the same size as marvel legends figures, and had the same packaging/cost (in the $7.99 - $8.99 range). If they did, they would probably be one of the hottest toys out there right now...

FireFox91
01-08-2006, 02:07 PM
Here is something odd. The only Sigma 6 I have purchased was the Ninja Showdown 2-pack with Snake Eyes and Stormshadow. These figures were packaged "normally" IMO. They had only 1 twist tie on each figure and a couple of rubber bands. It was actually quite easy to get them out. Unlike many other toys I opened at Christmas like the pre-school level toys for my daughter and the BBI F-18 for me. I watched 2 periods of a hockey game while opening the F-18, it took that long. And seriously, who wants to steal Weebles anyway?

Bravo
01-08-2006, 02:47 PM
It's fitting that Cobra Commander includes what looks like a coffin, because...

A. He looks like a goofy vampire now.

B. Sigma Six killed GI JOE (pick your scale, 12" or 3 3/4" ;) )

C. He'd probably drown under all that garabage he was packaged in.

D. In real life he'd be dead (Duke just hasn't informed the public yet)

Actually I'm over hating Sigma Six toys (still not interested in them, though) , but it sure does look like you are paying for packaging.

Dreadnok4life
01-09-2006, 07:14 PM
I'm a convert. I was bashing S6 with the best of them on this bb and others. A month ago `I was in TRU and saw S6 Snake Eyes on the shelf. So I went ahead and bought it and I have to say it's as dang cool toy. I have since purchased Storm Shadow and I still have positive things to say. I will probably buy more. The packaging is a bit ridiculous but it's not that big an issue for me.

Cold Slither
01-09-2006, 07:21 PM
My recycling bin always has a healthy dose of Joe cardboard and plastic, so I dont fret about Mother Earth.

Obiwanjacoby
01-10-2006, 12:16 AM
I'm a convert. I was bashing S6 with the best of them on this bb and others. A month ago `I was in TRU and saw S6 Snake Eyes on the shelf. So I went ahead and bought it and I have to say it's as dang cool toy. I have since purchased Storm Shadow and I still have positive things to say. I will probably buy more. The packaging is a bit ridiculous but it's not that big an issue for me.

I was harsh on the S6 figures once myself.

But I got Spirit (http://www.yojoe.com/sigma6/toys/2005/spiritironknife/) and liked him so much that I'm now feverishly looking for Long Range.:)

Though I do agree with others that the packaging is a real pain. But I love that the endcaps recycle into the weapons case!

-PJ

KrymsynGardImmoral
01-10-2006, 05:10 PM
I have been playing with my CC all day. I love that figure. The weapons cases are gonna look sweet with a little styrene to cover the logos and a fresh paint job, sitting in the corner of a COBRA base.

cobrasoldier
05-21-2006, 01:51 PM
Yeah the packaging is way toom uch on those "locker" types. Even on the ones without those..thery are still a pain to open. I do not like the carrtoon but can't stop buying the cobra stuff. I don't like the joe stuff except snake eyes. Otherwise I don't want to spend my $ on the Sigma joes.

neoviper76
09-10-2006, 07:26 PM
I am now a reformed Sigma basher having picked up the ninja showdown pack today(the first of many more to come). They are cool toys. I have to agree with everybody on the outlandish packaging. Not necessary. Cool looking but not necessary. The prices are a tad steep but when you compare it to other lines of collectible figures( DC Direct...Marvel Select....Macfarlane toys) they are about the same. Screw the weapons locker and stick with cardboard backs. Thats my opinion.

frozen_nd
12-30-2006, 03:03 PM
So it's been a year since I've aquired my first Sigma-6 figure (CC) and today I purchased my second figure (the new CC) for $14.76.

Lets see if in a year, anything has changed:

1) The price is the same as the one a year before. Very cool.
2) Same issue as before when opening the item: lots of tape & a few stretchy bands but only 1 plastic coated metal twist tie this time.
3) Instructions don't say much but do show that the "power stone" can be inserted into the "fusion blaster". Looked at the power stone and seen it has grooves on both ends. The fusion blaster has a groove to line up the powerstone. So I lined up the grooves and pushed the power stone in. Well......it went in......but it wasn't coming out! So after prying around it with a small screwdriver for 5 minutes, I finally dug it back out. I looked a little more carefully at the power stone and noticed that the grooves on one end of it are ever-so-slightly deeper than the other. So I flipped it around and lightly set it back on the fusion blaster......and it fell right in.
4) Again, attached are photos of the "product" and a list of the "post-consumer waste":

- hard plastic sleeve
- decorative cardboard sleeve (“filecard” was on the back. Guess that’s not “waste”.)
- thick backing cardboard insert
- plastic insert endcaps
- plastic straps holding the package together
- plastic hanger
- 4 clear, thin, “stretchy bands” to hold pieces / pose stuff
- various plastic inserts to support/pose figure
- 1 plastic coated metal twist tie
- 1 plastic “washer” for twist tie
- plastic bag for case handles
- tons of tape to hold everything else in place
- blinking LED light and 2 AA batteries (It's been stated this is for marketing...so I'm throwing it in with the "waste")

Results:
Exactly the same as last year.
There is still way to much material used in the packaging of this toy. $11.99 for the basic figures as compared to this. That's almost a $3 difference...for what? The plastic end caps or the shear amount of garbage use in the packaging?

I noticed that a few of the $15 figures had the caps but not the foam inserts. A few posts on here have said that the foam inserts are going away. If so, why are those figures still $15 ?

GRADES:
Figure: A. Love the articulation of these figures.
Accessories: C. Fusion blaster is cool. Helmet looks good and the pistol with removable clip is really nice. Everything else is pretty much garbage.
Instructions: F. The "power stone" into the "fusion blaster" really REALLY SUCKS if you insert it backwards. The power stone should have the groove only on 1 end....not both.
Packaging: big, super, fat F-. Only encountering 1 twisty tie was nice but there is way to much material used to package these figures. And at darn near $15 a figure....something is wrong.

At best, I see these figures being $9.99. Cut down on packaging, blinking lights & batteries, & all the other pointless garbage....and people might be more inclined to buy these figures. I can't speak for other places...but in stores around here, these figures collect dust.

GI Trekker
12-30-2006, 05:11 PM
Even cost notwithstanding, the packaging on the average Sigma Six figure is a pain in the :eek: . (Although if you want to make up the cost a bit, save the AA batteries from the little blinky thing. They've probably still got some life left in them. Use them in your digital camera or TV remote...)

I especially found the twist-ties that secured the heads of Zartan and Lt. Stone in their packages to be particularly troublesome, since they couldn't be easily accessed, and trying to cut them, I was worried about cutting Zartan's plastic hood or scratching the paint on the figure!

Granted also, though, this sort of thing is HARDLY unique to G.I.Joe or EVEN Hasbro products -- Transformers, Star Wars, Marvel Legends, you name it. I can understand wanting to protect a toy as much as possible (and I'll guarantee you those :mad: :eek: twist-ties are there to prevent easy THEFT as much as anything).

I am a little less charitable when it comes to wanting to put a figure in a package in a "dramatic pose" since I've had a few instances where the figure is stuffed into some framework that doesn't quite fit him as well as it should, but is such to force that figure to hold a position all the way from China, to the warehouse, to the store, so that by the time a person buys it, the plastic has been warped a bit.

Bottom line -- if there's any eternal justice in the world, then those who invented and advocated the use of plastic-coated wire twist-ties to secure toys into their packaging will be strapped into uncomfortable chairs by their own product, while those of us who have suffered endless frustration because of it will get to take our turns on them with baseball bats... :D

Shogi
12-31-2006, 01:49 PM
I think Trekker is on to something about twist ties being used for anti-theft than anything else as I've seen many a figure that after taking the 20-30 twist-ties out, the toy still won't budge!

My favorite example of blatant twist-tie use was with the Wizard exclusive Simpsons "Boxing Homer". He came with 2 boxing gloves. The wrist part (where there would be shoestrings on a real glove) had a notch so it could be put on and off easily. They each had a molded area in the bubble for them and the each had a twist-tie that went through the bubble, into the wrist hole and out the notch in the wrist.......that's right, you could take the glove out of the bubble and never touch the twist-tie!

So what is the purpose of twist-ties? I'm going with annoyance and anti-theft :)

Lody
12-31-2006, 06:25 PM
I have since been given Storm Shadow and his bike, Kamakura, BAT, Ninja Bat, Destro and Zartan. They have grown on me and I like the bad guys. The Cobra Commander is cool and now that they revealed that Firefly was a covert spy and still IS a Cobra I want him too.

Abomb
01-05-2007, 06:18 PM
im confused, which picture is of the toy and which is of the garbage?

LOL:p I don't really like Sigma Six, but the packaging just doesn't bother me. (I only got one fig and don't plan on getting any more.)

MacGyver
01-15-2007, 10:31 PM
My kid got a bunch of these for Christmas...and i have to agree! Sheesh! It's got to cost more to put all those twistees and rubber bands in place than to have the thing stolen! I do have to say that I found the cases to be really nice to round up all those parts (minus the foam, even some of the figures fit inside)...but a $5 price difference with and without...that's unreal. Simplify the packaging and include the case for the lower price. ;) That'd probably save money and manpower on both ends of the deal!

Sonneilon
02-02-2007, 12:13 AM
I may be new here, but I here your paint. The twisties are horrible and sure, other toylines have 'em and may be less, but it is totally a deterrent to people who steal in-store. But hey, isn't a lot of the toy in the marketing? So if Hasbro gives the illusion of gnarly packaging, kids should buy it. But let's be honest, would people really buy these figures if they looked to be on utterly cheap packaging? Plus, Hasbro needed a cash cow and by making S6 look as "attractive" as possible, they hope that things even out.

Urban Saboteur
02-02-2007, 05:51 AM
3 Pages of people complaining about Garbage? :confused:
It's a new one on me.. but oh well each to their own.. I have to agree that the twisty ties I've encountered in the newer release toys.. (not just G.I.Joe) but other toy lines too.. are a pain.. I can also see the point from the designer.. its so much more difficult to steal the toy now..

So why does the consumer have to pay for the privelege of keeping his toy?

it seems we really should be grateful and write to hasbro and thank them from the bottom of our hearts so much for charging us an extra $5 .. and for what?
"Gee thanks Hasbro for including these frustrating annoying pain in the beep beep plastic ties...I didn't get the figure I wanted stolen out of the packaging" :(

Just my 1000 USDollars worth.

Sonneilon
02-02-2007, 03:38 PM
Most of us figured the extra $5 was for the weapon case. :P

misterd
02-02-2007, 06:40 PM
I know I've hashed this out at JBL, but I may as well do it here too.

First, on the "pile of garbage", I get that from pretty much any over $10 Transformer toy too. Packaging is for advertising, and once the figure is sold, is pretty much just garbage, unless you are a MIB person.

Now, the $5 in no way shape or form can be attributed to just the weapon case. First, keep in mind that the cases are all (with 1 or 2 exceptions) made from the same standard mold, and ordered in much greater bulk than other accessories, since they come with every figure, in the same color. That economy of scale will dramatically reduce the price of cases. I'd be suprised if it even adds $1 to the cost of the figure.

To understand the true value of a Commando, you need to do a reasonable comparison with a Soldier figure, particularly one that has similar accessories.

For example:

Night Ops SE vs Artic SE
Sword vs Sword - draw
plastic harness vs plastic vest - I'd say ASE costs a little more
1 throwing star + 2 grendade vs 3 larger throwing stars - say this is a draw
goggles vs hoodie - can't be sure, but I'll toss it to NOSE
missile firing gun vs missile firing snowboard - slight edge to ASE
grappling hook vs Timber - ASE for the win

So basically the extra $5 for ASE is for Timber, which I think is a decent value.

Overall I think you'll be hard pressed to find any soldier figure that has accessories which come close to a commando's in total cost, meaning you have to factor in size, complexity, paint apps and materials. Yes, Firefly v1 comes with more stuff than Heavy Duty v1, but it's almost all small, cheap stuff.

Sonneilon
02-02-2007, 07:11 PM
I was just being a smart alec about the $5 weapon cases.

misterd
02-04-2007, 12:22 AM
I was just being a smart alec about the $5 weapon cases.

Yeah, I suspected you were, but the sentiment was expressed elsewhere in the thread, and I know of at least one soft-drink imbibing lightsaber weilder on JBL who thinks there's no difference between Soldier and Commando accessories.

Sonneilon
02-06-2007, 06:36 PM
Are you serious about a certain Jedi that doesn't know that there's a difference? Perhaps he should be booted down to Padawn or get his Pepsi taken away!

frozen_nd
10-19-2007, 07:52 PM
So it's been 10 months since I last acquired a Sigma-6 figure. These days, they appear to be called G.I. Joe "Commando" and "Soldier" (based upon their packaging) instead of Sigma-6.

I picked up Windfire Cobra Commander to go along with the other 2 CCs of this scale that I own.

In 10 months, what has changed:

1) Figure was purchased on sale for $12.88. But similar figures can be found online for $12.96 retail. Not much of a sale at .08 cents off but it definitely is cheaper than the $14.76 I paid for the last figure.
2) No foam inserts.
3) Figure comes with "Kung-fu grip" which is just a spring-loaded right hand that helps grasp things.
4) End caps have been remolded from previous design.
5) A lot less packaging material appeared to be used this time around. Attached are photos of the "product" and a list of the "post-consumer waste":

- hard plastic outer sleeve (“filecard” was on the back. That part is not “waste”.)
- decorative thick cardboard backing insert
- plastic insert/backing to support/pose figure
- 2 plastic insert endcaps
- plastic straps holding the package together
- plastic hanger
- 4 clear, thin, “stretchy bands” to hold pieces / pose stuff
- 1 tiny plastic insert for support
- 3 plastic coated metal twist ties
- plastic bag for case handles
- tape to hold everything else in place

Results:
Less waste...but less toy also.
There appears to be less packaging material used and there are no foam inserts. One would guess that less packaging material means less cost. But IMO, you're getting less toy also in the process. There are really no accessories with this figure outside of the chariot. So the price is $2 less than the previous figures: is it less because of the reduced materials or reduced toy contents? The $8.96 "Soldier" figures appear to come with more stuff...at a cheaper cost.

Opening this figure was less burdensome than the previous 2. Twisty ties have increased from 1 to 3 since last time. Only 1 twisty tie was hard to remove. The cardboard backing insert has a cool looking scene (if you were a child) but is pretty much worthless.

The toy is OK but is lacking in the accessory department. The 2 previous Cobra Commanders came with so-so accessories (fusion blaster was cool) but this one pulls up lame with a staff and 2 giant slabs of plastic that form the chariot. The kung-fu grip is kind of neat but I could see being annoying or just outright breaking. The endcaps that form the case have been redesigned and won't stack as nicely with the other 2 figure's.

GRADES:
Figure: A. Again, love the articulation of these figures. But the mold of CC's hands look like he is wearing oven mitts.
Accessories: D. You get a staff and a chariot (that weakly shoots disks). The cheaper "Soldier" figures come with way cooler accessories. (Instead of a chariot, CC should have came with an EasyBake oven to go with his oven mitts)
Instructions: A. Really nothing to screw-up unlike the fusion blaster fiasco last time.
Packaging: D. There appears to be less packaging material used but maybe a redesign could cut it down more...thus reducing the cost of the figure more?

Thoughts:
The figure is over-priced at darn near $13. It should have been packaged & priced like the "Soldiers". The "weapons case" is pretty much worthless cause there are no weapons to put in it...outside of the staff. The chariot won't fit inside. (I was able to stuff CC inside of it. Guess I could use it as a casket, with Halloween coming up & whatnot). And for a real kicker, the store had the large "Adventure Team" sets ($19.99 retail) marked for clearance at $4.88.

Not sure about other places but around here these 8-inch figures continue to sit on the shelves and collect dust.

Customizer notes:
One could pick up Windfire Cobra Commander ($13) plus the Pyramid in Peril adventure set ($5) and customize youself an 8-inch Serpentor figure pretty easy...

green firefly
10-19-2007, 08:54 PM
And for a real kicker, the store had the large "Adventure Team" sets ($19.99 retail) marked for clearance at $4.88.

Whoah...what store is this?

samluvsjoes
10-20-2007, 11:53 AM
Darn you Sigma 6! I got rid of all my Sigma 6 stuff (mostly because of space issues, but also because the friggin figures fell over all the time) and figured I was done with them. Now I keep seeing these new figures for "Adventure Team" and they are somewhat tempting (mostly though I think the temptation stems from there being no 25A stuff on the pegs), especially the new TRU exclusive Land, Sea, and Air 3-pack.
Oh well, I used to call them Sigma Sux, and I still feel that way to a certain extent, but they have been growing on me. However, until they cost less than open heart surgery I'll probably stay away from buying them.
Sam

green firefly
10-20-2007, 01:17 PM
Darn you Sigma 6! I got rid of all my Sigma 6 stuff (mostly because of space issues, but also because the friggin figures fell over all the time) and figured I was done with them. Now I keep seeing these new figures for "Adventure Team" and they are somewhat tempting (mostly though I think the temptation stems from there being no 25A stuff on the pegs), especially the new TRU exclusive Land, Sea, and Air 3-pack.
Oh well, I used to call them Sigma Sux, and I still feel that way to a certain extent, but they have been growing on me. However, until they cost less than open heart surgery I'll probably stay away from buying them.
Sam

Two points:

1) One of the reasons I collect Sigma 6 is because you can often get them super cheap. I've paid retail for probably a third of my collection. Lt. Stone, the SE Quad and the SE paratrooper were the only figures I paid over retail for because I couldn't find them anywhere but Ebay.

2) 3 3/4" stands work very well with the 8 inch Joes. It gives them much more stability.

samluvsjoes
10-20-2007, 02:09 PM
Two points:

1) One of the reasons I collect Sigma 6 is because you can often get them super cheap. I've paid retail for probably a third of my collection. Lt. Stone, the SE Quad and the SE paratrooper were the only figures I paid over retail for because I couldn't find them anywhere but Ebay.

2) 3 3/4" stands work very well with the 8 inch Joes. It gives them much more stability.

Cool, thanks for the stand info.
What I'd meant about them costing so much is that I feel that the retail prices are too much for one figure. I realize they're tall and whatnot, but they still cost more than I want to pay for just one figure.
Sam

green firefly
10-20-2007, 04:58 PM
Cool, thanks for the stand info.
What I'd meant about them costing so much is that I feel that the retail prices are too much for one figure. I realize they're tall and whatnot, but they still cost more than I want to pay for just one figure.
Sam

I agree that $15 was too much and it was a mistake. But I got most of my figures in the $5 to $8 range from HTS, Amazon, Ebay and store markdowns. That was great for me, but a bad sign for the 8 inch line as a hole.

misterd
10-20-2007, 09:36 PM
So it's been 10 months since I last acquired a Sigma-6 figure. These days, they appear to be called G.I. Joe "Commando" and "Soldier" (based upon their packaging) instead of Sigma-6.

I picked up Windfire Cobra Commander to go along with the other 2 CCs of this scale that I own.

In 10 months, what has changed:

1) Figure was purchased on sale for $12.88. But similar figures can be found online for $12.96 retail. Not much of a sale at .08 cents off but it definitely is cheaper than the $14.76 I paid for the last figure.
2) No foam inserts.
3) Figure comes with "Kung-fu grip" which is just a spring-loaded right hand that helps grasp things.
4) End caps have been remolded from previous design.
5) A lot less packaging material appeared to be used this time around. Attached are photos of the "product" and a list of the "post-consumer waste":

- hard plastic outer sleeve (“filecard” was on the back. That part is not “waste”.)
- decorative thick cardboard backing insert
- plastic insert/backing to support/pose figure
- 2 plastic insert endcaps
- plastic straps holding the package together
- plastic hanger
- 4 clear, thin, “stretchy bands” to hold pieces / pose stuff
- 1 tiny plastic insert for support
- 3 plastic coated metal twist ties
- plastic bag for case handles
- tape to hold everything else in place

Results:
Less waste...but less toy also.

There appears to be less packaging material used and there are no foam inserts. One would guess that less packaging material means less cost. But IMO, you're getting less toy also in the process. There are really no accessories with this figure outside of the chariot. So the price is $2 less than the previous figures: is it less because of the reduced materials or reduced toy contents? The $8.96 "Soldier" figures appear to come with more stuff...at a cheaper cost.

Opening this figure was less burdensome than the previous 2. Twisty ties have increased from 1 to 3 since last time. Only 1 twisty tie was hard to remove. The cardboard backing insert has a cool looking scene (if you were a child) but is pretty much worthless.

The toy is OK but is lacking in the accessory department. The 2 previous Cobra Commanders came with so-so accessories (fusion blaster was cool) but this one pulls up lame with a staff and 2 giant slabs of plastic that form the chariot. The kung-fu grip is kind of neat but I could see being annoying or just outright breaking. The endcaps that form the case have been redesigned and won't stack as nicely with the other 2 figure's.

GRADES:
Figure: A. Again, love the articulation of these figures. But the mold of CC's hands look like he is wearing oven mitts.
Accessories: D. You get a staff and a chariot (that weakly shoots disks). The cheaper "Soldier" figures come with way cooler accessories. (Instead of a chariot, CC should have came with an EasyBake oven to go with his oven mitts)
Instructions: A. Really nothing to screw-up unlike the fusion blaster fiasco last time.
Packaging: D. There appears to be less packaging material used but maybe a redesign could cut it down more...thus reducing the cost of the figure more?

Thoughts:
The figure is over-priced at darn near $13. It should have been packaged & priced like the "Soldiers". The "weapons case" is pretty much worthless cause there are no weapons to put in it...outside of the staff. The chariot won't fit inside. (I was able to stuff CC inside of it. Guess I could use it as a casket, with Halloween coming up & whatnot). And for a real kicker, the store had the large "Adventure Team" sets ($19.99 retail) marked for clearance at $4.88.

Not sure about other places but around here these 8-inch figures continue to sit on the shelves and collect dust.

Customizer notes:
One could pick up Windfire Cobra Commander ($13) plus the Pyramid in Peril adventure set ($5) and customize youself an 8-inch Serpentor figure pretty easy...

[/quote]

What's the point of this? You do realize that those of us who post in this forum have bought the toys, frequently a great many of them.

And do you normally go about cataloging the packaging minutiae of your toys? This is fairly typical of most modern toys of the Sigma size or larger.

And it makes little sense for you to judge the line and changes in it based on a couple of figures, nor for using sale prices for value comparisons. The Commandos still have a MSRP of $15, and the AT for $20.

WF CC has fewer things included, but, overall, the value is on par with other Commandos (which themselves have a range). The chariot is a damned hefty piece of equipment. If you looked at the line overall, you'd note that Sigma figs generally get either 1) one big but complex accessory and a few small ones, or 2) a lot of smaller, simpler accessories. WFCC goes in the former category, while Flint, Commando SE and Dark Ninja Master go in the latter. It is simply not a figure that could have been done at a Soldier price. ****, the 3.75 figures cost $6 on their own, and the 8" figures cost well over twice as much to produce.

As for the weapon's case, these are standard with every figure and cost Hasbro very little to make because they are produced from one mold, and in far greater bulk than the figures themselves. Even if there is relatively little to include in the case (though there is the helmet, lighting bold and 3 discs in addition to the staff), it is more cost effective to keep it than to redesign the box for one figure.

samluvsjoes
10-23-2007, 09:53 PM
I think the point is to show how his opinions have changed since the first post that originally began this thread. I find reviews to be a good thing as they keep me from buying things (or at least inform me of things that might also annoy me). The real question is, what's the point of making fun of him for "nitpicking minutiae" when that's the purpose of a review, and things like his reviews fall into the purpose of a board like this?
Sam

green firefly
10-23-2007, 10:41 PM
I think the point is to show how his opinions have changed since the first post that originally began this thread. I find reviews to be a good thing as they keep me from buying things (or at least inform me of things that might also annoy me). The real question is, what's the point of making fun of him for "nitpicking minutiae" when that's the purpose of a review, and things like his reviews fall into the purpose of a board like this?
Sam

Personally, I've learned to accept that others will hate what I like and like what I hate. I read a review like this and take what information I find useful.

frozen_nd
10-24-2007, 12:05 PM
My original post was more of a complaint than anything else. I was just amazed at the sheer amount of packaging material that was used with the figure I had purchased. The second and third posts were pretty much a continuation & comparison to my original post to see if anything had changed over time.

For me, when stuff starts to cost over $15, I start to take close notice. After I opened up the original figure and seen what was the "toy & accessories" and how much "post-consumer waste" there was, I was ticked off. From what looked to be comparable figures packaged on cardboard backing (soldiers), I was paying almost $5 more, in my opinion, for Cobra Commander because of the packaging (i.e. GARBAGE). All 3 of my original posts contain a picture of this waste. Minus the filecard, everything in those pictures labeled "garbage" was chucked in the garbage can outside my place and the city hauled it to the dump. Package those 3 Cobra Commanders the same as the "soldiers" and I would guess that I would have ~$15 (3x$5) more in my pocket instead of the landfill. :mad:

Nowhere in anything I have typed have I said I hated or despised these figures. I completely agree with the posts that extol the virtues of these figures.

I can't speak for other places but around here sigma 6 figures sit on the shelves collecting dust. I would guess the reason is because they are over-priced as compared to similar toys.

And what is the reason that sigma 6 costs more?

green firefly
10-24-2007, 01:57 PM
My original post was more of a complaint than anything else. I was just amazed at the sheer amount of packaging material that was used with the figure I had purchased. The second and third posts were pretty much a continuation & comparison to my original post to see if anything had changed over time.

For me, when stuff starts to cost over $15, I start to take close notice. After I opened up the original figure and seen what was the "toy & accessories" and how much "post-consumer waste" there was, I was ticked off. From what looked to be comparable figures packaged on cardboard backing (soldiers), I was paying almost $5 more, in my opinion, for Cobra Commander because of the packaging (i.e. GARBAGE). All 3 of my original posts contain a picture of this waste. Minus the filecard, everything in those pictures labeled "garbage" was chucked in the garbage can outside my place and the city hauled it to the dump. Package those 3 Cobra Commanders the same as the "soldiers" and I would guess that I would have ~$15 (3x$5) more in my pocket instead of the landfill. :mad:

Nowhere in anything I have typed have I said I hated or despised these figures. I completely agree with the posts that extol the virtues of these figures.

I can't speak for other places but around here sigma 6 figures sit on the shelves collecting dust. I would guess the reason is because they are over-priced as compared to similar toys.

And what is the reason that sigma 6 costs more?

Yep, $15 was/is too much...no doubt about it. At least some of the older $15 figures had some clothes and/or a larger animal. The combat squad figures, for example, do not contain anything that makes them worth more than than soldiers.

quintonarledge
10-24-2007, 02:16 PM
Good thread. Yes, I didn't buy a single 8" figure until a couple of weeks ago because I didn't like the new size or Anime influenced design at first, but most of all I didn't like that $15.00 retail price for a single figure. That sucks especially when you're a "buy one to keep in the package/buy one to open" kind of guy like me. However, once some of the figures started getting marked down on clearance I picked a few of them up and have really been pleased with them, but it is a PAIN to open up the figures! All those plastic bands, twist-ties, tape, foam pieces, cardboard. It takes FOREVER to get a figure ready to play with. No wonder this failed with the kids!

-p.s.- kinda off-topic, but I REALLY want a 3.75" 25A-Style Lt.Stone. That would be awesome.

Deadshot
11-04-2007, 03:40 PM
Well.....I've finally bought a few Sigma figures. ( Mainly cuz they were on sale.) I do agree that there is a lot of packaging waste... but at least in my area all of it is recyclable.. even the twist ties.

Agent Cobalt
11-06-2007, 03:27 PM
It's almost as if Hasbro was afraid that the figures would break free and cause chaos like Chip Hazard in the Small Soldiers movie. There are twist ties around parts that would not have shaken loose if the package was dropped from a 5 story building, so ridiculously snug is the vacuum molded tray. Worst of all is the one around the figures neck, as you have to COMPLETELY disassemble the packaging to get at it.
And don't think that we're not paying extra for those fancy blinky lights! What are those for? What, are we moths that are only attracted to a product if there are little lights going on and off in them? (MOM! Jimmy's stuck in the bug-zapper again!)
Granted, the packaging LOOKS cool, but it's not worth the extra dough (or work!).

green firefly
11-06-2007, 06:42 PM
I believe the Sigma 6 packaging is pretty typical, as I have opened hundreds of toys over the past 12 years...from Transformers to Barbies and from Jurassic Park to Polly Pocket. The light was supposed to attract your attention...I think it was a waste. The light was probably 5 cents but the batteries had to cost a decent amount.

rODDEad03
11-06-2007, 08:30 PM
I have 8 of the sigma six figures................

i must say the prices on ebay are extremely expensive............

but the lockers are kinda cool.............

I just purchased this GREENISH colored snake eyes which

has the title of "commando" and is pretty cool......

I also have FLint ...........but snake eyes is the coolest.......





Jerod