Hey:
I recently purchased an afa 85 destro's despoiler with all 85 subgrades and
was put out by how horrible the condition was of the boxed item. I have a few afa85 or higher carded figures and have been extremely happy with an afa85 or better for carded items. My question is this: Does afa give more leniency on misb items over carded items? I mean this box for the despoiler in my mind wasn't anything higher than an afa70-75. Why would a beat up box grade so well? I paid good money for this and its to be honest disappointing when it feels it was not graded acurately. Any help would be apprecietad.

Thanks!!!!
Jeremy

Was this the one I sold to tassistant? If so, it was a solid 85 and comparable to the other 85 I have. Can you post some pics? Occasionally, if the case gets damaged in shipping it can damage the vehicle. I had that happen on one occasion.

Hey:
I recently purchased an afa 85 destro's despoiler with all 85 subgrades and
was put out by how horrible the condition was of the boxed item. I have a few afa85 or higher carded figures and have been extremely happy with an afa85 or better for carded items. My question is this: Does afa give more leniency on misb items over carded items? I mean this box for the despoiler in my mind wasn't anything higher than an afa70-75. Why would a beat up box grade so well? I paid good money for this and its to be honest disappointing when it feels it was not graded acurately. Any help would be apprecietad.

Thanks!!!!
Jeremy

Exactly why I do not collect AFA stuff. WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYY over priced for something that is graded by a subjective (and apparently inconsistent) manner. Congrats to those of you with the deep pockets who can afford these things! You have my envy. However, I'm just a collector and not an investor, so I guess I get to dodge this bullet.

this is why i laugh at people who spend more money for "other" people to grade their stuff essentially AFA is saying were idiots and don't know how to grade our own items :cool:

this is why i laugh at people who spend more money for "other" people to grade their stuff essentially AFA is saying were idiots and don't know how to grade our own items :cool: That is exactly what i think also, everyone's opinion on what the condition a carded figure or boxed vehicle is in will not be the same. Also AFA graded is just a way for sellers to ask higher prices, and it also makes some buyers feel that they have a better item because the guy's at AFA say so.

Don't turn this thread into "AFA collectors are idiots". This is a legit question that has been surfacing more and more for me lately. I'm starting to get enough AFA pieces that have similar grades if not the same grades and the overall appearence of the piece varies fairly wildly in my experience. I've been collecting toys and even grading toys for over 15 years as a comic shop employee and now owner, and I'm surprised at what's been showing up at my house. It's a catch 22 because we're paying for an imperfect science I suppose. It seems like in the last year more and more of the cardback grades are higher while the cards look considerably worse off than stuff I have that was graded longer ago. I'm not familiar with AFA's graders, but perhaps they've hired new graders whose "opinions" on the condition vary than the original graders. I plan on actually catching up with AFA this summer at a con or two and am going to show them pieces that received the same grades with obvious differences. I don't know if they'll care, or simply tell me to resubmit (which I won't do unless it's on their dime). Ultimately I'm not even looking to resell so I don't suppose it even really matters in the cosmic scheme of things. I would like to see more consistency, but honestly have no idea how to achieve that.

Don't turn this thread into "AFA collectors are idiots". This is a legit question that has been surfacing more and more for me lately. I'm starting to get enough AFA pieces that have similar grades if not the same grades and the overall appearence of the piece varies fairly wildly in my experience. I've been collecting toys and even grading toys for over 15 years as a comic shop employee and now owner, and I'm surprised at what's been showing up at my house. It's a catch 22 because we're paying for an imperfect science I suppose. It seems like in the last year more and more of the cardback grades are higher while the cards look considerably worse off than stuff I have that was graded longer ago. I'm not familiar with AFA's graders, but perhaps they've hired new graders whose "opinions" on the condition vary than the original graders. I plan on actually catching up with AFA this summer at a con or two and am going to show them pieces that received the same grades with obvious differences. I don't know if they'll care, or simply tell me to resubmit (which I won't do unless it's on their dime). Ultimately I'm not even looking to resell so I don't suppose it even really matters in the cosmic scheme of things. I would like to see more consistency, but honestly have no idea how to achieve that.

you just validated what i was saying people spend alot of money on something someone else said was such and such condition when it doesn't even compare to the same item in the same grade,what can i say AFA thinks it can say whatever it wants,and people believe them because they do not have the brains to grade the item themselves(or according to AFA anyway),people wake up your collectors and you know what condition a card should be in so why do you pay someone else to give their opinion?heck if you want send the item to me and for just the cost of shipping and a few bucks(alot less then AFA)i'll put it in a plastic container(which the acid from the plastic will ruin the card)and i'll give ya a grade for your item.

Look, if you don't like AFA or think their service is meaningless then stay out of the damn discussion. Someone who bought an AFA item asked a question about the item and hopefully people who have AFA experience will give some feedback whether it's helpful on not. How come everytime someone brings this up people like yourselves have to get on your "Anti AFA soapbox" and spew the same diatribe over and over. We get it. You don't like AFA. Well I'm assuming you don't buy AFA graded items so sit back and shut up about it. It doesn't affect your participation in the hobby. Don't look down your nose at those who find value or perceived value in the service. I happen to like the UV cases. I happen to like the uniform look. I happen to like the idea that if I need or want to sell one then a buyer on the other side of the country has a reasonable idea of what I'm selling them. If you don't like it and you obviously don't just shut up about it and post on the threads that involve your various aspects of the hobby.

Hey, where's Taichiro? This is a softball for him.

I'm an opener - about as far as an AFA collector as you can get.

This thread was based on a legitimate concern about conditions, which play a bigger part for non-openers, & bigger yet for AFA or other slabbed collectors. I'm interested in slabbed toys, but not interested in collecting them, so I read this type of thread/post. This seems kind of similar to the bad traders section. Anyone is free to, & actually encourged to read them, but if all you're going to do is run down something you have little if any experience in, & actually probably very little interest in, why bad mouth it?

There a many different types of Joe collectors, & this is really a minor differance. People need to be more tolerant of other perspectives. I wouldn't consider paying what some graded prices are, but most people I know wouldn't pay $100+ for a GI Joe guy, & I've spent more than that on several occasions.

It's great that so many differant collectors can all gather here, but if the only thing you have to contribute to a thread is derogatory, think twice before you click on "Submit Reply".

CGC,

It's all that I'm asking for. Too much negativity on these boards a lot of the time. It's why I lurk more often then post because most of the aspects of this hobby I'm interested in are hot buttons for a vocal minority that make it difficult to have real discussion. Whether it's artwork, prototypes, or high end sealed items, the collectors of these aspects of GI Joe get labeled as "eliteist" or "close mouthed". Directions of threads like this are one of the reasons why. I shook my head when the guy I sold all my sealed Nightforce vehicles opened them and built them, but they were HIS toys that he bought with HIS money, and they made HIM happy. That's all that matters. We just need to all lighten up and be respectful of one another.

I originally owned the item zartan is talking about, had it graded, and sold it to another seller on ebay. It has minor wear but nothing that is inconsistent with any of the other 85 vehicles I have. I would say it is a middle of the road 85 and not a high 85. I think it didn't have any 90 subs on it. There was some minor wear near the window if I remember correctly but overall box structure was solid.

As far as vehicle grading goes, vehicles are graded based on the size of the vehicle. For example, if you submit a Flagg that has a 5 inch crease, it will still get a high grade where the same crease on a Skystriker would get a lower grade. The box is the primary grade and is determined based on the overall size of the box. If the box has a figure and window, then those are also part of the overall grade but rarely help bump it to the next level (occassionally you may get a 85 80,85,85) although the reverse is true if let's say the window is damaged. An 85 vehicle will not be as pristine as a smaller MOC, because it is larger in size. You can clearly tell the difference between a 90 and an 85 vehicle and an 80 and an 85 vehicle. As far as vehicle consistency with grading, I am able to usually guess the correct overall grade but have had them come back lower than what I expected because I had missed a crease on the bottom (80 instead of 85). High grade vehicles 90 or higher are very hard to find and obtain. The Despoiler in question was the best piece out of a case of Despoilers which should give you an idea how difficult it is to find perfect specimens. Hope this helps.

Intelligent/poductive discussion on GI Joe collecting is encouraged on this board.

Making derogatory remarks about other collectors because of what they might collect will not be tolerated.

We, the members of YoJoe, are not idots because we might collect AFA graded Joe / army build / collect old sculpts / collect new sculpts / collect Sig 6 / collect MSB / or any other sort of hot topic Joe collecting.

On the vehicle boxes how exactly are they secured within the AFA case?

While I do collect some MISB items I wouldn't get one AFA but as a collector in general it seems kind of shady if they will grade something and seal it in a way the item can be damaged further but not have noticable damage on the case. Just curious...

The item is not damaged when it is cased. There is no such thing as acid leaking from acrylic, which was mentioned in an earlier post. The only way a case could damage the item would be if it was damaged in shipping and in that event, it would have been damaged regardless of the case.

A vehicle is usually placed in the case with top and side backer "rods" to keep it in place.

I really am, but. . .


Ultimately I'm not even looking to resell so I don't suppose it even really matters in the cosmic scheme of things.

vs.


I happen to like the idea that if I need or want to sell one then a buyer on the other side of the country has a reasonable idea of what I'm selling them.

Hello. . .? :rolleyes:

-PJ

Thanks for everybody who posted. To be honest I think we as fellow collectors need to have more respect for each other's collecting goals. I collect afa, and only afa from people I know, because I do think they provide a good service and I love the cases for displaying the item. I have alot of respect for all of you loose collectors, but I prefer to collect unopened because I like the box art and unopened toys. I played with the toys when I was kid. Now I just want to enjoy them and I don't need to play with them to love collecting. The great thing is I'm not a big time collector, but by hard work and searching I have found alot of stuff for my misb collection, alot of really hard stuff to get. I as a misb/moc collector get irritated when loose collectors try to pin me down as an investor and I am not an investor. I think a statement like that belittles the fact that I do love the hobby. Even though the despoiler was not in the best shape, I will still buy afa items. To be honest I prefer to take a loss on an afa item as opposed to the hundreds of dollars I've spent on Ebay items self graded as awesome and when they came a bunch of junk.

As far as vehicle grading goes, vehicles are graded based on the size of the vehicle [...] High grade vehicles 90 or higher are very hard to find and obtain. The Despoiler in question was the best piece out of a case of Despoilers which should give you an idea how difficult it is to find perfect specimens. Hope this helps.

I'll add to this. An boxed 85 usually indicates the following: good eye appeal with a moderate amount of rubbing or scratches. There may or may not be rounded corners. There are usually a few creases or folds (something light that must be held at an angle to be seen). The overall gloss should be intact (though there can be some loss). From a distance of 10 feet, it should look like a million bucks.

Also, the box's color will affect how a grade is given. For example, He Man giftsets (e.g., Skeletor and Panthor or He Man and Battle Cat) have lots of black area, and the slightest crease, rubbing, or tear will be visible immediately. GI JOE selaed vehicles can differ. Some vehicles were boxed in roughly white cardboard and others in fully colored boxes. When grading a Sears' exclusive, then, the primary concern will be the colored portion of the box (the image) and secondary concern will go to the box itself (whether or not the white has yellowed over time, creases or folds, etc.).

I am, of course, curious to see this Despoiler that you think is overgraded. I can post a picture of my Zartan 80 for reference (it looks like something that can go either way, 80 or low 85).

I really am, but. . .



vs.



Hello. . .? :rolleyes:

-PJ
PJ,

I know I'll catch **** from the moderators but go to ****. I'm a collector first and foremost as everyone that knows me can attest to. If something came up and I needed money for whatever reason than it's nice to have the AFA info to better facilitate selling the piece. That's the point I was illustrating. You have a personal hard-on for me when I post looking back at some of the other threads I've been involved in and I'd appreciate it if you and your ilk will just keep your negativity to yourselves.

Howie

I like Howie's posts. :)

But watch out guys, heaven forbid you learn how to work the hobby for yourself and flip an item or two at a higher dollar value! That's just treason! How could you violate the sanctity of the hobby like that? What will the little children think? Think of the little children....<gasp><shock><awe>

;)

In all seriousness, the consistancy, or lack thereof, of AFAs grading has been at the forefront of the AFA debate for years, whether it be SW, GI Joe, He-Man, etc. It would be nice to try to have a conversation like this without it turning into a pro or anti-AFA debate but sadly, this is one of the root problems that bothers a lot of people in the anti-AFA camp. The bottom line is, AFA is notorious for having inconsistant grading.

There have also been several instances, like this one, where the AFA cased item is damaged in transport. I've heard numerous horror stories of rare, high-end AFA graded figures bursting through the bubbles during shipping, the yellow bubbles popping off, etc. Once it's in that case, it doesn't mean it's invincible but a lot of people don't see it that way.

The AFA cases are designed to look great and offer a minimum amount of protection but in the end an item can still easily be damaged or destroyed after it's been graded. It's unfortunate, but it's the truth, and it's just another reason why some people don't think AFA is the end all be all.

PJ,

I know I'll catch **** from the moderators but go to ****.
Howie

Well said Howie.:D I wish the moderators would stop guys like this from hijacking threads and adding posts that have nothing to do with the topic at all. If they have nothing to add then they should just stay away.

Alright dudes, I'm hijacking this thread!

Here's my list of demands:

1.) One Big Mac
2.) 3 Marbles
3.) A toothpick

and

4.) A good discussion on the original question asked in this thread

Until my list is met, I will once every hour, post a random post having nothing to do with anything AND ! ! ! It will include complaining, swearing and name calling! ! !

You have 59 min. before the next post... The clock is ticking, better get on it!

Tanner

I think if a person is willing to spend the money anyway, they should seek out non AFA MISB toys. Perhaps the real problem with AFA grading is that it might make collectors make blind purchases. They see a good AFA grade and not look too closely at the item.

I don't know much about the grading, but AFA 85 sounds like something that's pretty nice looking, not perfect, but not garbage either. Still, I don't like AFA, but I also think that this thread is more about a collector getting ripped off, than it is about AFA. I never like seeing a collector get ripped off.

Here's my list of demands:

1.) One Big Mac
2.) 3 Marbles
3.) A toothpick

and

4.) A good discussion on the original question asked in this thread


1. I got a whopper with cheese. close enough
2. 3 marbles sent to you via telegram
3. (searches for toothpick in car) heres one. its only slightly used

4. my 2 cents. i actually have seen inconsistancies in afa graded items too. maybe they are getting more laxed now since the market is getting flooded with them. i do wonder if there aint a little bribbing going on the side from the high end sellers. i have no proof either way to justify that accusation. its just a hunch.
afa has its place and it will be around for a while longer. imho though if they dont get organized then the market is going to see one day grade 90 storm shadows with broken tabs and creases going down the middle.
so in answer to the original question i havnt personally gotten afa items with huge inconsistancies with the same grade but i have seen it at shows and such.:)

I do not personally buy AFA items due to the high prices but I can see why one would want to. How cool would it be to walk into your display room and see it ceiling to floor G.I. Joes still in boxes like it was when we were kids. Anyways I have seen quite a few not always joes and I too noticed quite a lot of differential especially in the 85's it seems not so much in the 90's and below 80 so I can imagine ebay is really hard because you do only have the word of the AFA grader and seller and can't "really" see it. As opposed to myself who buys a joe on there for 2 bucks I am only out two bucks your out 200. My final thought here is to buy MISB and than have it graded probably cheaper(though I don't know how much it is to get things graded) to reach the goals you are looking for. As long as your collecting joes your alright with me:D

my problem is i always remember the counterfeit Transformer in a resealed package that AFA graded high,they ended up buying the item from the guy who won it in an auction,but how many forgeries have passed there discerning eye?

my problem is i always remember the counterfeit Transformer in a resealed package that AFA graded high,they ended up buying the item from the guy who won it in an auction,but how many forgeries have passed there discerning eye?

Was that just a rumor, or was it for real? Either way, that's a good point for those who are pretty much just slabbing box-art with unseen; unassembled contents.

Oh, and Howie?

That sensitivity you're feeling (when I bullseyed the nerve like that) will never go away, because it's not as externally sourced as your investor buddies want you to believe.

It's internal.

You sold out your childhood and it really stings when someone points it out.

With quotes only, no less. :cool:

Don't worry, the mods are on your side. You won't even feel the wrist slap.

-PJ

That chip must be almost unbearable now hey Paul?

Well Im still new to Joe collecting but I collected Sports cards for almost 15 years and when People started getting cards graded is when i got out, It ruined the hobby for a lot of people. Collecting should be fun.Why should you Pay money for some person to say what condition your Joe is in and has probably never played with a joe. I understand some poeple who are saying that they look nice in the cases but cant you just buy some protective cases your self. I see some of the stuff on ebay going for hundreds of dollars because someone put a grade on it (sports cards, Joe's etc) and that is why Hobbies are going down the drain. Just my 2 cents

P.s. These are public boards aren't they? So everyone one's opinions are welcome.

it was real and it was a Cliffjumper"Fake" mint on "re"Sealed Card.

That chip must be almost unbearable now hey Paul?
Why you holding his hand, Shane? Is there something you two have in common that absolutely must be defended and revisited every time the subject comes up?

No?

Well, okay then.

-PJ

No one seems to be paying attention to the question, so I will add this and then I'm out.

I don't agree that the grading is inconsistent. As I stated earlier, the despoiler was a solid 85 -- it came from a case of despoilers and is comparable to every other mid range 85 I have including the other 85 despoiler. Its not perfect but a great display piece. 85 does not mean perfect -- it is near mint plus.

I think its more that AFA has certain criteria when it grades that not all sellers/collectors are aware of or they might have overlooked when submitting. The subgrades are also not averaged to determine the overall grade. The card/box is weighed much heavier than the figure and the bubble. The other thing alot of submitters don't realize is that AFA won't clean the card for you or shine the bubble. If your card looks dirty, it gets a comparable grade, so if certain sellers pull higher grades, it is probably because they took the time to remove price stickers, clean the card and bubble and make sure it was a presentable piece. There is a science to the grading and if you only dabble in AFAs its easy to overlook points that might have been taken off for things like small bubble flaws or hard to see creases.

For example, a well known seller recently complained to me about a non G.I. Joe item that he had graded which he swore up and down was a straight 90. The grade it got was 85 85,85,90. I looked at it and saw a small crease in the bottom right corner and some small imperfections on the side of the bubble which that seller had overlooked. The seller still believed it deserved a 90 but I knew immediately having submitted hundreds of items that it was an 85 all day long.

Do mistakes happen, sure. AFA haters routinely cite the Transformers Beachcomber (not Cliffjumper) incident or the Jawa, but in response to that I would say at least they offered to do something about it and if at most you can only point to 2 mistakes out of 100,000+ items graded, that's a pretty good margin of error. Having collected and sold CGCs since inception, I can tell you that AFA does a much better job at being consistent than CGC and a superior job compared to most overzealoous ebay sellers.

As far as the comment about bribing, that's simply not true. The grading is anonymous and as much as I would love to get preferential treatment because I submit alot, I unfortuantely don't. For example, I have had several items that were refused to be graded for one reason or another and recently, out of a case of unopened figures, I only got 4 90s -- most were 80s and 75s -- keep in mind that's an unopened case of 36 figures.

I also find it very interesting how adamant certain AFA haters are. I remember awhile back there was a guy on the rebelscum forum that came on talking trash and making up outlandish rumors. Come to find out, he was setting up his own grading company. Now, I'm sure that's not the case here but I always wonder what drives some of the comments.

Its also very hard to find really rare high grade 9 backs like the Zap 2 handed bazooka AFA 85 that's in my store (the last one sold for $750) or AFA 90 of any MOC like the Snake Eyes ver. 3 AFA 90 that's in my store. Sorry couldn't resist the plug.

Why you holding his hand, Shane? Is there something you two have in common that absolutely must be defended and revisited every time the subject comes up?

No?


Yeah, there is actually. We all think you're a tool.

It's the same old rhetoric from you directed at the same people time after time. Wah wah wah, look at PJ hatin' on the same people and the same topics. Your jealousy is so tired dude. Give it a rest for a while.

One day i'd love to see a thread about this stuff that doesn't end up with you sitting a top your righteous moral collecting horse spouting off about drivel you know nothing about calling out false accusations towards people you've never even spoken to.

I think its more that AFA has certain criteria when it grades that not all sellers/collectors are aware of or they might have overlooked when submitting. (skip) There is a science to the grading and if you only dabble in AFAs its easy to overlook points that might have been taken off for things like small bubble flaws or hard to see creases.

For example, a well known seller recently complained to me about a non G.I. Joe item that he had graded which he swore up and down was a straight 90. The grade it got was 85 85,85,90. I looked at it and saw a small crease in the bottom right corner and some small imperfections on the side of the bubble which that seller had overlooked. The seller still believed it deserved a 90 but I knew immediately having submitted hundreds of items that it was an 85 all day long.

Okay, that's cool. What that means after being "boiled down" is that AFA is very-very detailed about grading. Got it.


Do mistakes happen, sure. AFA haters routinely cite the Transformers Beachcomber (not Cliffjumper) incident or the Jawa, but in response to that I would say at least they offered to do something about it and if at most you can only point to 2 mistakes out of 100,000+ items graded, that's a pretty good margin of error.

That said, how could they miss such an obvious flaw in the piece if they're so meticulous?

And honestly, I really don't have a bone to pick with AFA or anyone who collects them. If it fails, it will surely fail on it's own merits (or lack of) and in a decade or so, they'll return to flood the market.

What gets me upset though, are people who. . .

(a.) confuse AFA with a legit appraisal service and enjoy blurring that line.

(b.) try to rationalize to others things that are obviously contradictory ("I'll ultimately never sell them. . .unless I feel like selling them." LOL!), and at the same time point out their own identity problem as collectors.

I have friends who are sealed collectors (and also dealers) that are totally honest about the way they collect. They admit that they are unashamedly hoarding items that they not only enjoy, but they feel will make a good future investment. And that there is a difference between me and them. They collect from a more adult vintage investment POV; I don't.

And I'm cool w/that. We get along quite well. And no, I don't even poke fun at the way they choose to collect.

As long as they don't spread around that "all collectors are the same" garbage, it's all good. :)

-PJ

Yeah, there is actually. We all think you're a tool.

What's this "we" dude? Howcome I mostly see you on these thread topics? And howcome you never name your little "we all" cabal? They're on your side, right?


It's the same old rhetoric from you directed at the same people time after time. Wah wah wah, look at PJ hatin' on the same people and the same topics. Your jealousy is so tired dude. Give it a rest for a while.

You don't really want to tolerate my opinion, you just have an axe to grind. I am fully capable of letting it go, are you? See my last post. Maybe it'll become clear.


One day i'd love to see a thread about this stuff that doesn't end up with you sitting a top your righteous moral collecting horse spouting off about drivel you know nothing about calling out false accusations towards people you've never even spoken to.

Okay, if I have falsely accused you in any way. I will make full restitution in public on this board.

Let's get the ball rolling on it and see a little making up.

You capable of that? Are you made of more gracious stuff unlike others here? Or will you keep the petty grudge Shane?

I know it's hard to let go of, because it feels good. I know it's fun to have a villain to joust against.

But I'm tired of it. Seriously.

-PJ

Your jealousy is so tired dude.

And another thing. Man. . .that quote says it all. :D

What am I jealous of, Shane?

Are you calling me a player hater because I like to open the box or something? What's that make other collectors who "go loose" by choice? You think there isn't such a thing?

-PJ

ok the problem is AFA is very hot and disputed topic,and no matter how innocent the discussion people will put in their 2-cents(yes thats me too)but one of the things that has irked me in this thread is how some people think i have no clue about AFA well let me tell you something about AFA a freind of mine had won awe striker AFA graded he got it cheap cause this is when they were just starting with G.I.Joe vehicles,anyway he didn't care for keeping the item sealed up so he opened the package up and guess what he found a garbage vehicle that was resealed in the package it was broken and missing parts,when he contected the seller"the seller" said thats how he got it from another seller,when he contacted AFA they said sorry but the package was opened so they are not responsible,this is fact since i was there when he opened it so if you must know why i hate AFA that is why,furthermore i will never purchase anything sealed by AFA because of that.

What's this "we" dude? Howcome I mostly see you on these thread topics? And howcome you never name your little "we all" cabal? They're on your side, right?

Oh come on now, you know full well who they are. ;)



You don't really want to tolerate my opinion, you just have an axe to grind.

Actually, that's not even close to true. I think that a lot of your opinions and posts on other topics, unrelated to collectors and all things proto, AFA, high-end etc are both valid and worthwhile. I don't think we've ever gone toe to toe in threads not discussing those have we?



Okay, if I have falsely accused you in any way. I will make full restitution in public on this board.

Sure. Remember when you got on your crusade and took me making mention on being an admin on another site completely out of context? Despite numerous posts disproving and defending what you were accusing me of, you still couldn't let it drop and just accept what i was trying to tell you could you?

How about all the times you accused me, and others, of being snobby, elitist and secretive collectors who never share anything on these boards or submit things to yojoe. That we want to *hide* everything from other collectors. I think several of us proved you wrong there right?

How about this thread: http://forums.yojoe.com/showthread.php?p=163138#post163138

It's not directed towards me but it sure shows your colours towards certain people around here.

Should i keep going?

I certainly don't recall recieving apologies about any of those topics...



You capable of that? Are you make of more gracious stuff unlike others here? Or will you keep the petty grudge Shane?

I know it's hard to let go of, because it feels good. I know it's fun to have a villain to joust against.

But I'm tired of it. Seriously.

Oh, we're all tired of it PJ, believe you me. I like to think i'm made of pretty gracious stuff but the bottom line is, i really don't like you Paul. I haven't since our first go around and i'll never like you. It's not that i think your a villain to joust against, i just don't like you and it's easy to make you look like a monkey.

I'd be more than happy to let it all go when the day comes that you get off your high horse and stop posting self-righteous drivel like this...

"You sold out your childhood and it really stings when someone points it out."

...or any of the other left-field crap you come up with like in the thread i referenced above.

There are a LOT of people tired of your game Paul so I guess if you can agree to stop playing it then i can agree to stop all of this.

Regardless, i'm done with this one and am going to bed. Nighty night.