Are we being flooded by newbies these days, or am I just out of touch with the market????

Some guy named wolfie is offering some nice foreign pieces on EBay....but the prices are going supernaturally high on them.

$350+ for a MOC Euro Spirit....$200+ for a MOC Letal....$380+ for a MOC Relampago....$1,300 for a MOC Emerald Green Zap (!) and the list goes on. Just wait and see what the blue/yellow Bludd goes for.

As expensive as Brian's Toys is, they had one of the Zap figs up for a looong time at $600.

It's not just the foreign stuff either....I saw a Wolverine sell for $85 last week. People are spending $50-60 for common items like it's nothing.

I thought it was bad when Satan and Ku started going for $60-70 each....now all this. Somebody please tell me that this will pass and we can get back to some sense of normalcy.

Umm that happens to be for most of them reasonable prices as the market goes. Letal is a very hard to find figure and fetches a high price loose let alone MOC. Emerald Zap is the same. Very hard to find loose let alone MOC.

However I will point out that he states many of the pictures on yojoe are from him. I know he isnt Shane or some of the others. So I dont know exactly who he is but to have those items he has had to have been around for a rather long time.

Like I said, I saw the Emerald Zap on Brian's Toys not long ago for $600...and their rep isn't exactly for being reasonably priced.

My Euro Spirit was about $60.

I've seen loose Letals sell for $40-50 in the not too distant past.

What about the Forca Fera figs going for $60-80? A few months back, you could get them for $30 or so.

You can get a MIB Wolverine for the $80 this one sold for.

I wasn't too suprised to see the MOC Python Patrol figs go for what they did (well, maybe a little) because you never see these items MOC...but I still feel that the market is going crazy right now.

hes no newbie, been collecting longer than most people in here, i wish this wasnt even brought up till after than auctions were over, but i guess there really is just no chance of that anymore everytime something nice shows up someone lets everyone know, ohhhh well,

hes been collecting somwhere around 10 years, most everything he has came from back then, he has been out of collecting for a long time and now has decided to just sell everything

stuff that rare you may never see again, that is why the prices are so ridiculous, most collectors feel just that, this is there one chance to finally get what they are looking for

to be honest i would have been all over this guys stuff if they were loose, but i hate moc items with a passion, so i doubt ill be getting anything

I know that wolfie is no newbie....it would take years of searching to come up with just the stuff that he's sold so far - and he supposedly has more to sell.

I'm wondering if the newbies aren't the ones bidding this stuff up into the stratosphere. It's not just his auctions...prices are up across the board, and often you see that the winning bidder is someone with very little feedback. I'm thinking that we've got some newcomers with more money than patience.

Don't get me wrong, it's their right to spend their money however they want to...it's just frustrating to have to compete against that mentality for items. I'm probably one of the last of the old-school bargain hunters when it comes to collecting. After six years of collecting, I think I have a pretty good idea of what things should be worth, and won't spend more than that. It causes me to miss out sometimes, but my patience has been rewarded fairly often. If things keep going like this, it'll be more and more rare for me to actually win something, though.

for me i definitly fall into the no patience category, if i see something on my wanted list, i dont hesitate, but i have to admit, just about everything i own, i feel in my mind i got a good deal according to the market with few exceptions of course, and if these were loose, id be all over them too, but i dont bid, im a sniper, so i bid my max and thats it, if i win i win if i dont then at least i didnt get into a bid war and boost it way up, and i think the bid war is the only reason why these go for so much

I think the "newbies" should stop bidding on things because Volleydan is having a hard time finding a good deal:rolleyes: Maybe you can complain to Ebay about it.

I bid on a few of his items, but didn't win any :( I didn't go too crazy though.

I think buyers in the U.S. are more open to paying more for International items from someone in the U.S. rather than from the country of origin, due to fear of losing these expensive items in the mail, items which must travel relatively far and pass through many hands

I bid on a few of his items, but didn't win any :( I didn't go too crazy though.

Chris (topson) and I both did as well. They're neat pieces, but I can't justify paying those prices when I truly don't think they're worth it - not when there are so many more important things to spend money on. Stupid adulthood. ;)

I think the "newbies" should stop bidding on things because Volleydan is having a hard time finding a good deal:rolleyes: Maybe you can complain to Ebay about it.

Nothing like a little sarcasm to liven up a discussion. Nice job there.

i wish this wasnt even brought up till after than auctions were over, but i guess there really is just no chance of that anymore everytime something nice shows up someone lets everyone know, ohhhh well,

I just gotta know if this was meant as sarcastic or serious because unless they were listed in the scrapbooking category by mistake everyone would have seen them anyway.:confused:

not everyone would have seen them because there are some very very key words missing, depending on how you search for your G I JOES you might not find them

I don't think these have been outed. I saw a couple of them in searches for "brazil" and "argentina" a couple days ago. These were pretty vague, open ended searches & they turned up. I think if somebody did a specific search for any of these figs, they would easily be found.

yeah if you spend all day running 100's of searches you would eventually find them, but if you ran a basic search lets say g i joe like alot of people do, and go to newly listed, you wont find them, but yeah if you run multiple searches every day yes your right you'll find them, im not too sure that every single collector sits and runs that many searchs, w/o specific key wording (my idea is less people will see them) so why drag them into attention especially if your not even going to bid on them

I bid on a few of his items, but didn't win any :( I didn't go too crazy though.

I think buyers in the U.S. are more open to paying more for International items from someone in the U.S. rather than from the country of origin, due to fear of losing these expensive items in the mail, items which must travel relatively far and pass through many hands

I am one of those guys. I hate the long wait, because I am afraid I got ripped off or it was lost.

I agree with volleydan, in that , I thought most of the items went kind of high. I bid on almost all of them and only won the sky creeper for $15. I really thought I would have lost that one. Anyway, it is good that I did not win them all, because I would have been in a lot of trouble cash wise if I did. I wonder if these kind of prices for MOC international rare figures will stay this high or if it is a trend right now? I am not talking about the funskool stuff, but the UK, Argentina, and Brazil figures. The funskool rares will never be cheap. It really makes me think of selling off my international collection and buying it back later. When that Guacho sold for $400 last week, I almost started to post mine on Ebay. I bought mine for $75 six or seven years ago. What am I saying? Of coarse I will not sell my joes, I will just pay more to get more.
Chris

I do about five searches every day....and usually my keywords are "Argentina", "Brazil", "Funskool", "UK", and whatever I'm looking for at the time.

As far as "outing" an auction....you're kidding, right? I don't think anyone who seriously collects foreign Joes is going to miss these simply because they don't say "GI Joe" in the listing. Besides, I believe there was another thread about these auctions a few days ago when they were first listed.

Oh, and I did bid on several of the items. I just dropped out when they passed what I thought was reasonable prices for them.

yeah if you spend all day running 100's of searches you would eventually find them, but if you ran a basic search lets say g i joe like alot of people do, and go to newly listed, you wont find them, but yeah if you run multiple searches every day yes your right you'll find them, im not too sure that every single collector sits and runs that many searchs, w/o specific key wording (my idea is less people will see them) so why drag them into attention especially if your not even going to bid on them
Y'know, you just might be on to something there!

However, I run about 10-15 ebay searches a week & found them anyway. These auctions were listed properly, were not hidden or miscategorized, and were in no other way difficult to find. Even if they were, outing auctions is not against any board rules, even though it is frowned on.

I'm sorry to hear that you're upset about the timing of this topic, but these things happen. As much as you're upset, I'm sure the seller is happy to be getting a little added attention to them.

I do about five searches every day....and usually my keywords are "Argentina", "Brazil", "Funskool", "UK", and whatever I'm looking for at the time.

As far as "outing" an auction....you're kidding, right? I don't think anyone who seriously collects foreign Joes is going to miss these simply because they don't say "GI Joe" in the listing. Besides, I believe there was another thread about these auctions a few days ago when they were first listed.

Oh, and I did bid on several of the items. I just dropped out when they passed what I thought was reasonable prices for them.

for the few auctions im watching you could have run those searches and not found them, im not pointing you out as an outter, but just everyone who does it in general, there have been numerous times people brought up stuff that hasnt ended yet, i just dont think its a good thing to due, just my opinion, my point is that someone will do it anyways, i just feel people shouldnt do it till they are over, but your right if you ran some of those searches and then did view other listings you would have seen them, i agree, in this case its not that bad, but still im watching 2 auctions with none of those keywords and now i feel like everyone knows about them when i felt like maybe only 75% of everyone knew about them before

yeah if you spend all day running 100's of searches you would eventually find them, but if you ran a basic search lets say g i joe like alot of people do, and go to newly listed, you wont find them, but yeah if you run multiple searches every day yes your right you'll find them, im not too sure that every single collector sits and runs that many searchs, w/o specific key wording (my idea is less people will see them) so why drag them into attention especially if your not even going to bid on them


WHO searches for GI JOE??? i have been collecting joes for about 7 years and never once have i searched "gi joe". Go to the Gi joe listings and search night, or brazil, or dolphin, moon dancer. I guess I may have searched GI JOE the first month or too that i browsed ebay but I think anyone willing to spend this kind of money knows what they are looking for and are not your run of the mill collector. I wouldnt be upset with the price , anything rare fetches alot of money unless its listed wrong.

i search g i joe every day about 2 or 3 times a day, that way i get to see everythig listed for g i joe that day, that means if you dont understand, that i should be seeing every single listing for g i joe, instead of spending hours on ebay w/ tons or searches coming up dry, as we all know these types of items dont show up often, i run other types of searches as well, but i think there are alot if not most collectors run a simple g i joe search and then narrow it down, but this way you wouldnt miss anything unless it was mislabled, which in this case imo they are well the 2 things im watching, which in turn makes them harder to locate on ebay, sheeesh i cant believe that this even needs explaining but i guess it just does

it is not proper edicate imo to out an auction that hasnt ended yet

so you saying that hay i know what i want and thats it so why bother looking for anything else,

not for me, every day just about i find something on ebay i wouldnt have thought to look for cause i didnt know about it

by the way i dont care about the price, what i care about is not having to spend extra money if i dont have to

ohhh and by the way were talking about newbies driving the prices up not about collectors collecting for 7 years, read all the posts before you jump in

Chris (topson) and I both did as well. They're neat pieces, but I can't justify paying those prices when I truly don't think they're worth it - not when there are so many more important things to spend money on. Stupid adulthood. ;)

What you think something is worth apparently are what others feel are great deals. I guess its a difference of opinion.

Im w/ dfunk. I absolutely hate the fact that people bring up auctions "just because" they either dont think its " worth it" or because someone " cant afford it". I dont know why everyone just doesnt leave it alone and wait until the end of the freaking auction. Show some courtesy and wait until the very end please. I swear Im going to start doing it ... just with the hopes that I can eventually get one that someone who does it all the time gets upset and looses the auction because I let just that one person who doesnt check ebay on a regular basis sees that I posted the darn thing.

Don't get me wrong, it's their right to spend their money however they want to...it's just frustrating to have to compete against that mentality for items. I'm probably one of the last of the old-school bargain hunters when it comes to collecting. After six years of collecting, I think I have a pretty good idea of what things should be worth, and won't spend more than that. It causes me to miss out sometimes, but my patience has been rewarded fairly often. If things keep going like this, it'll be more and more rare for me to actually win something, though.

I think that this is the problem with a lot of us who have been around for a number of years - we often get caught up in what we think things should sell for and tend to hold on a little too tightly to the old prices we once paid or saw items sell for in the past.

Unfortunately, when it comes to collectibles, prices don't stay the same forever. They're in constant flux, up or down. It just happens to be that the current market seems to be on an upswing. I wouldn't blame newbies, or clueless people for driving up some of the prices on these - i think that more and more people are taking a keen interest in foreign items (or other things like prototypes, etc) and as a result of more people actively searching them out and wanting them, the prices are naturally going to increase. When you throw the fact that there were some incredibly rare pieces in this collection in *dynomite* shape, i don't think it's unreasonable at all that these auctions ended where they did.

And keep in mind that while prices for figures like Satan, Ninja Ku, etc may have been fairly affordable for the past few years, they certainly weren't always that way. I paid approx $175 each for my MOC Satan and Ninja Ku figures about 8 years ago - those things were as scarce as hen's teeth then. I paid about $150 for a dead mint De Aco less than 5 years ago and the prices certainly came down from there as more started to surface from Brazil, Argentina, etc, thus stabilizing the prices.

Joes are collectibles like anything else and healthy collectibles markets are always in flux. Things are hot when they first get discovered. Prices come down as more become available. Interest wanes over time due to lower prices and more availablility. Availability dries up. New people come into the hobby or older collectors all of a sudden have new interest in said items. As a result, the next time they pop up for sale, prices are going to be higher than we're used to seeing over the past few years.

What you think something is worth apparently are what others feel are great deals. I guess its a difference of opinion.

Im w/ dfunk. I absolutely hate the fact that people bring up auctions "just because" they either dont think its " worth it" or because someone " cant afford it". I dont know why everyone just doesnt leave it alone and wait until the end of the freaking auction. Show some courtesy and wait until the very end please. I swear Im going to start doing it ... just with the hopes that I can eventually get one that someone who does it all the time gets upset and looses the auction because I let just that one person who doesnt check ebay on a regular basis sees that I posted the darn thing.

This just seems like a very childish argument. If it were your auction in question I'm sure you wouldn't be here saying "Please don't post any links to my auctions until they end so that somebody has a chance to buy my stuff cheaper".

listen were not talking about the obvious here, of course thats the case, but anyone here would list it in the for sale section so that people would know about it

i mean come on thats apples and oranges

I think it's safe to say that almost nobody thinks outing an auction is right. I don't know exactly where the line is drawn between what is & isn't outing, but that really isn't the point of this thread anyway. If anybody would like to continue that conversation, please feel free to start another thread on it, this one has been sidetracked enough.

Shane made several good points. I really don't think that "noobs" can be blamed for price fluctuations or spikes. Remember, at one time we were all new to the hobby. Like he said, they are collectible, & by their nature there will be price changes. Some are better for sellers, others are better for buyers. I do way more buying than selling, so I guess I'm a little disappointed by the direction some things have gone recently, but some other things have dropped. Remember the wave 6 Torch? For awhile you couldn't touch him for under $50, & in the past week or two I've seen a couple go in lots for under $20. It's all just part of the hobby.

I think that this is the problem with a lot of us who have been around for a number of years - we often get caught up in what we think things should sell for and tend to hold on a little too tightly to the old prices we once paid or saw items sell for in the past.
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Joes are collectibles like anything else and healthy collectibles markets are always in flux. Things are hot when they first get discovered. Prices come down as more become available. Interest wanes over time due to lower prices and more availablility. Availability dries up. New people come into the hobby or older collectors all of a sudden have new interest in said items. As a result, the next time they pop up for sale, prices are going to be higher than we're used to seeing over the past few years.

I agree. The market for anything goes up and down on several long and short cycles. Some cycles are measured in years, some happen seasonally. I think in general that any good quality collectible will trend upwards over time. And as for auctions on Ebay, I closely follow several different collectible toy lines, including GI Joe. I often see identical items sell for $30 and than $70, for example, within the same week. Sometimes it makes no sense. Some of the fluctuation can certainly be attributed to dishonest sellers who sometimes shill bid. But there are many factors involved in such a dynamic market as a huge auction service.

I'm glad someone else brought shilling up and not me.. however after watching those auctions it appeared one of the bidders actually had 2 or more bids on the same item as well as further multiple bids on the sellers other items.. what makes this whole thing worse is that I think the seller has two ebay accounts.. theres no law against this at all but I was slightly miffed when that same bidder lost interest as soon as it passed the ebay's block bidder ID amount.. (I forgot what $ price this is).

This meant you was no longer able to track that persons progress in the auctions.. to prove shilling you'd need to match them all up effectively.

Moving onto the actual point of the thread Shane was spot on.. the collectible market is in no way different from stocks n shares.. only instead of coffee, gold or steel its firefly, Zartan and snake eyes... the fact you can pay $35 for a mint loose complete figure then see him sell for $80 is the unpredictable nature of ebay and the rise and fall of the market.

Some of the recent common items that have sold for high amounts to "new" bidders would certainly indicate to me they have more money than knowledge and simply havent done their research.
As for these rare foreign items being outted.. that isnt the case here.. I mean sure this topic could of waited.. but to argue a collector wouldn't see them is pointless.. with a few searches.. as CGC pointed out.. I found them.. anyone thats anyone who's interested would find them easily enough.

speaking as a "noob" (I've only recently started collecting Joe's as an adult, mostly thanks to this board and its my hope that you vets would be a little more understanding) and Speaking as someone in sales. I'll tell you all what I tell my Clients "something is worth exactly what someone is willing to pay for it"

Appraisals and last years, month, yesterdays prices are completly useless, if you don't have a buyer at that price.

Just like the housing market, if prices are up then sell. If enough people sell prices will fall, so then you buy. Its just not good buisness to be in a position to have to do anything. its alway good to not have to sell or buy.

As for me I havn't been doing this long enough to know the ins and outs of what things should cost. If I see it and I wan't it and I can afford it, I buy it.

If my noobieness is driving prices up well.... (sarcastic) sorry.

speaking as a "noob" (I've only recently started collecting Joe's as an adult, mostly thanks to this board and its my hope that you vets would be a little more understanding) and Speaking as someone in sales. I'll tell you all what I tell my Clients "something is worth exactly what someone is willing to pay for it"

Appraisals and last years, month, yesterdays prices are completly useless, if you don't have a buyer at that price.

Just like the housing market, if prices are up then sell. If enough people sell prices will fall, so then you buy. Its just not good buisness to be in a position to have to do anything. its alway good to not have to sell or buy.

As for me I havn't been doing this long enough to know the ins and outs of what things should cost. If I see it and I wan't it and I can afford it, I buy it.

If my noobieness is driving prices up well.... (sarcastic) sorry.

im with you man, who cares if someone else wants it cheaper, i dont care at all, if i want it i buy it, or i win it, 90% of the time i do too, because generally ill pay whatever it takes to get it, but i do my best to find the deals if you have the time and energy to find them trust me you will they are out there all over the place

honestly i dont even hardly buy from ebay anymore, as the stuff i collect is just never there for sale

btw im a noob too ive only been collecting almost a year now, to most people in here im very much a noob

This just seems like a very childish argument. If it were your auction in question I'm sure you wouldn't be here saying "Please don't post any links to my auctions until they end so that somebody has a chance to buy my stuff cheaper".

On that note I would say thank you, you know since this is a website devoted to childrens toys. So me being childish seems to work well with the orientation of the site.

Actually no I wouldnt because I would have already posted it in the "Auction" section. And when one posts the subject in the correct section people will usually talk about it in that thread. Which is were any thread posting specifically an auction belongs. Not in the toys section. **I cant speak for the mods but normally when a topic is in the wrong section they will move it to the correct section. I dont know if posting links to auctions in the toy sections counts, especially if someone is pointing out a "great auction" or "how crazy" people are about spending money on things that they want.

Any discussion about how crazy someones prices are, are not supposed to be permitted here. Again, Im not specifically sure how exactly that pertains to peoples spending on ebay.

I'll make one (hopefully last) comment on the side discussion about "outing" auctions....you all seem to be complaining like I spoiled your chances at a good deal, but all I was doing was pointing out the final prices of several items that I thought were artificially high. Check the date and time. I don't know how you can "out" an auction that already ended. Isn't discussion about the value of various items part of what this board is for?

Now, back to the original discussion. I know the market fluctuates. In my mind, I'm actually starting to compare the Joe market today - especially the international market - to the housing market a few years ago. I think prices are inflated above what the market can sustain, and there will have to be a 'market correction' at some point.

I paid only $30 each for carded Ninja Ku and Satan....now they're going for three to four times that each. On the other hand, I paid $200 for my De Aco loose/complete with no filecard. Now you can get them for a third of that (even though mine is the nicest one I've ever seen).

What's the real price for these items? Only time will tell. I might end up burned if I'm wrong, because if prices continue to escalate I'll wish I bought more today. But if I'm right, I'll be able to get many of these items at much better prices than people are paying today.

Actually, this is part of my evil plan to ruin collecting for everyone. First, I make sure I win every auction by making my top bid 1 billion dollars. Then, after I win everything, I leave it all out in the sun for weeks on end, thus ruining it. Soon, I shall have the only copies of each and every "rare" item, and I will be known as the King of all Geekiness!
:p ;) :D :rolleyes:
Sam

Now, back to the original discussion. I know the market fluctuates. In my mind, I'm actually starting to compare the Joe market today - especially the international market - to the housing market a few years ago. I think prices are inflated above what the market can sustain, and there will have to be a 'market correction' at some point.


I have to disagree. I think the Joe market is finally due for a major spike. When you compare it to other collectible lines that shared the same amount of popularity back in the day, when they were originally available, Joes are seriously undervalued. Vintage SW, G1 TFs, MOTU figures all have serious collector followings and fairly high price tags attached to rare and quality items.

Of course there will always be very affordable items in every line but overall, compared to some of the lines i mentioned above, i think Joe as a whole is about to play catch up with some of it's 80s counterparts.

My theory is that Joes and other 80s toy lines have already had their spike and prices will start to drop in the near future.....hear me out on this.

Many Joe collectors (at least 3 3/4" collectors) are my age (33) or younger. Whereas we once had lots of disposable income, we now are starting to have wives....kids....mortgages....and other things that will limit the amount that we are able to spend on toys. As the tail-enders of our generation age to this point, the shift will be more pronounced.

While this won't do anything to increase the supply, it will cut demand like crazy. As older collectors drop out of the market, they must be replaced by another crop of twentysomethings with a zest for nostalgia. Well, the next group won't be interested in GI Joe, Transformers, or He-Man. It'll be all about TMNT or Power Rangers or whatever else was popular in the 90s.

The longer we get from the time when Joes and other 80s toys were prevalent in the market, the fewer collectors we'll see. Unless the 3 3/4" Joes make some sort of impact on today's toy market, we won't be restocking our fan base anytime soon.

Sure, high-end stuff will still be out there and will still draw top dollar from the serious collectors that aren't going anywhere...but we'll see collecting as a "fad" pass in a few years.

It's just my theory, take it for what it's worth.

I think the Joe market is finally due for a major spike. When you compare it to other collectible lines that shared the same amount of popularity back in the day, when they were originally available, Joes are seriously undervalued. Vintage SW, G1 TFs, MOTU figures all have serious collector followings and fairly high price tags attached to rare and quality items.
I agree...to a point. I think what you'll really see (and these auctions are indicative of the beginning) is a schism between high end and lower end items. You're going to see really high quality or rare items go for extremely high prices. But, the poor condition or common items are going to remain cheap. People simply aren't going to invest (because, let's face it, once you're dropping over a grand on something, it's an investment) in anything that isn't very high quality or known to be extremely rare.

I don't foresee there being a huge run up in loose figure prices. They've been rather steady for a few years now and seem to have found some balance. Where you've seen the price growth has been in the high quality, vintage carded items. For every AFA 85+ carded figure, there are dozens if not hundreds of perfectly mint, complete loose figures. So, the rarity is what's driving the price. In time, you're going to see the high end money in these type of items and that's going to lead to huge price disparities between these "investment" pieces and the more common stuff that is easier to find.

The Joe marketplace, though, is also very susceptible to fads. At this moment, foreign figures are hot. Yet, as recently as January, foreign stuff was going unsold. A while ago, the alternate Asian figures were big. Now, those have fallen off the radar since most of the current collectors have their fill. In a few years, though, there will be a new crop of collectors who didn't get those figures and suddently an alternate Daina will fetch $100 on Ebay and everyone will reminscene about how they used to sell for ~$12. It's all cyclical. A few years ago Firefly's phone was the hottest accessory going. Then it was Keel Haul's gun. Then it was Cold Front's mic. Then it was Hardtop's gun. Now, it's Heavy Metal's mic. Who knows what's going to be next? But, when the next hot item comes along, that's the time to start buying everything else. ;)

i believe g i joe will always have a collector base, whether its 12" or 3 3/4 there will always be a collector base, especially when there are new joes being released still to this day, it gets buzz for all of us 80's kids to get all there old toys back, and like all collectables in 10 years it'll be most definitly worth more money than today

you have to look at the big pitcure with collectables, not the bumps and bounds in between, because as is life and economy, everything goes up and down, but in the end is always worth more, just my opinion, so if your a old school collector most likely you wont get the same prices you got from a few years ago

My theory is that Joes and other 80s toy lines have already had their spike and prices will start to drop in the near future.....hear me out on this.

Many Joe collectors (at least 3 3/4" collectors) are my age (33) or younger. Whereas we once had lots of disposable income, we now are starting to have wives....kids....mortgages....and other things that will limit the amount that we are able to spend on toys. As the tail-enders of our generation age to this point, the shift will be more pronounced.
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Sure, high-end stuff will still be out there and will still draw top dollar from the serious collectors that aren't going anywhere...but we'll see collecting as a "fad" pass in a few years.

It's just my theory, take it for what it's worth.

The whole basis of your arguement seems to be that men get married in their early thirties, have kids, and therefore have less money to spend on Joes.

I disagree. I doubt that there is a sharp increase of marriage and children at the age of about 30. Plus, having children is a big incentive to start collecting toys you had as a kid to share with your own children. "Look at this, Bobby, I had this when I was your age. Now it's worth $300." Also, some people start paying off their college loans in their thirties and some start moving into their peek income years. And many households today have two incomes, so that would be more income than while single. And buying toys for your own kids could generate an interest in starting to collect toys that you used to have yourself.

Having children is a big incentive to start collecting toys you had as a kid to share with your own children. "Look at this, Bobby, I had this when I was your age. Now it's worth $300."


You're going to be buying $300 toys to play with your kids with? Or giving them toys out of your collection that are worth that much? I'm not, because I don't want them trashed.

And yes, I think many men get married by or about age 30 and their priorities tend to change. Personally, my priorities before marriage were beer, toys, and generally goofing off. Now they're very different, and I think that will hold true for a lot of collectors as time passes. I don't think you'll find too many people who would rather have a MOC PDD than to make their next two or three mortgage payments.

Just ask yourself why long-time and fairly famous collectors like wolfie and anthony mirro are getting out.

If you're one of those guys who are fortunate enough to where money isn't an issue for you.....then you're not typical. If you're one of those guys whose spouse doesn't mind you dropping hundreds of dollars on toys.....then you're not typical either.

I actually expect there to be an increase across the board for Joe collectibles due to the Anniversary of the line later this year. Perhaps, we may not even see any serious correction or decline in prices until sometime in 2008.

Has anyone taken into account the role which scalpers and "reborn" collectors will play on price valuation due to the Anniversary celebration?

I am in my 50's - and I did not start collecting toys until after my children were born and showed a keen interest in them. (so, essentially, I was in my 30's)

My sons are now grown and gone, but I continue... : -)

Both for the nostalgia of my kid's childhood and for the personal interest I have in discovering, archiving, and sharing information on these great little pieces of art and culture that so influenced my own kids, their friends, and indeed a generation!

A few years ago, after 2 decades of collecting 80's and 90's toys (because they were the toys my kids played with), I discoverd vintage 12" figures from the 60's and 70's - and I fell in love with them! I had never played with them as a child - but there is something about those old figures that takes me back to a simpler time! And the vintage 12" collector community has more old timers like me and I feel comfortable there...

I know LOTS of people in my boat... for instance a good friend who collects Barbie, because her daughter loved Barbie...not because she herself played with them as a child.

In the vintage 12" community, I also found a lot of people my age who had played with Joes as kids, maybe collected a little, but got involved in other things in life in their 20's or 30 's or so... UNTIL... their kids began to leave home, and they had more time to appreciate the figures, and funds to start collecting all over again.

I still collect the 3 3/4" Joes - They are still very special to me - And I anticipate cherishing them for the rest of my life!

Money can be very tight for me as for others- Life can be very full of comittments, and obligations, and relationships, and work etc..
It's all about making choices.
And people, in general, make different choices based on what's going on in their lives at the time. Some of the collectors who have "gotten out" of collecting, may well get back into it, when life events change... (or not, as the case may be..) All's good! :-)

All that to say, I would bet that - say, 20 years from now - there will still be MANY 3 3/4" Joe collectors! If I'm around, I'll still be collecting, that's for sure!

Aire

I am in my 50's - and I did not start collecting toys until after my children were born and showed a keen interest in them. (so, essentially, I was in my 30's)

My sons are now grown and gone, but I continue... : -)

Both for the nostalgia of my kid's childhood and for the personal interest I have in discovering, archiving, and sharing information on these great little pieces of art and culture that so influenced my own kids, their friends, and indeed a generation!

A few years ago, after 2 decades of collecting 80's and 90's toys (because they were the toys my kids played with), I discoverd vintage 12" figures from the 60's and 70's - and I fell in love with them! I had never played with them as a child - but there is something about those old figures that takes me back to a simpler time! And the vintage 12" collector community has more old timers like me and I feel comfortable there...

I know LOTS of people in my boat... for instance a good friend who collects Barbie, because her daughter loved Barbie...not because she herself played with them as a child.

In the vintage 12" community, I also found a lot of people my age who had played with Joes as kids, maybe collected a little, but got involved in other things in life in their 20's or 30 's or so... UNTIL... their kids began to leave home, and they had more time to appreciate the figures, and funds to start collecting all over again.

I still collect the 3 3/4" Joes - They are still very special to me - And I anticipate cherishing them for the rest of my life!

Money can be very tight for me as for others- Life can be very full of comittments, and obligations, and relationships, and work etc..
It's all about making choices.
And people, in general, make different choices based on what's going on in their lives at the time. Some of the collectors who have "gotten out" of collecting, may well get back into it, when life events change... (or not, as the case may be..) All's good! :-)

All that to say, I would bet that - say, 20 years from now - there will still be MANY 3 3/4" Joe collectors! If I'm around, I'll still be collecting, that's for sure!

Aire

lol i have a complete collection of early 80's misb raibow brite stuff because my wife and oldest duaghter like them

:-) Yep!!! : -)

I think you're over-generalizing things way too much for this topic.

Do people's priorities in life change? Yes, they certainly do. Do people come and go out of this and other hobbies? Yes, of course. But are these decisions based solely on marriage, children, mortgages, turning 30? Maybe sometimes but the majority of the people i know who have dropped out of hobbies haven't done so for these specific reasons. They've done so because they felt it was time to move on, regardless of what led them to that decision.

People will always collect. There might not be as many people as there are now, but there will always be collectors and prices won't ever stay the same. The vintage robot hobby is a prime example of a group of collectors who have been involved in their hobby for decades before 3 3/4" Joes were around and if you think the prices for these last few auctions were high, they're nothing compared the price tags associated with old robots. That's a perfect example of a sustainable hobby.

The same can be said for vintage SW. The average age of collectors is about the same as a Joe collector, probably a little bit older and that market is still going strong. That hobby maxed out price wise around 1997 but it's still hotly collected regardless of how many of it's members are having kids, are married, buying houses, etc. The majority of my collector friends in that hobby have at least 2 out of 3 of those committments and are still going strong.



Just ask yourself why long-time and fairly famous collectors like wolfie and anthony mirro are getting out.

I knew Anthony (acmirro) very well and i can say for a fact he simply grew tired of the hobby. It wasn't age. It wasn't life changes or new priorities. He just grew out of it.



If you're one of those guys who are fortunate enough to where money isn't an issue for you.....then you're not typical. If you're one of those guys whose spouse doesn't mind you dropping hundreds of dollars on toys.....then you're not typical either.

Money is most certainly an issue for me but my spouse doesn't mind me dropping hundreds or thousands of dollars on toys. It's my hobby and she's very supportive. But this really has nothing to do with the topic. I'm have a hard time understanding why this is being argued so fervently anyway - the bottom line is the hobby is on an upswing. If you don't like it, or can't afford it, move on and get out. Or stop complaining, accept it and continue to enjoy the hobby as you do. The longer you're involved, the more changes you're going to see, for better or for worse. It's best to just accept that and deal with it accordingly.

I'm have a hard time understanding why this is being argued so fervently anyway - the bottom line is the hobby is on an upswing. If you don't like it, or can't afford it, move on and get out. Or stop complaining, accept it and continue to enjoy the hobby as you do. The longer you're involved, the more changes you're going to see, for better or for worse. It's best to just accept that and deal with it accordingly.

I don't feel like this is an argument, just a interesting discussion.

Me, too! Quite interesting! : -)

Ive been collecting now on and off for 6 years and I won 2 auctions from wolfie I hadnt seen for sale in those six years, and I didnt care how much it cost those items where going to be mine, and yes the Letal for $205 dollers was me, but considering I was the highest bidder on a loose complete one at $210 a week early (what im so thankful didnt meet reserve) I think $205 for a carded Letal was a bargain and just out of interest does anyone else here have one?

I don't feel like this is an argument, just a interesting discussion.

Maybe i'm just reading the tone wrong. My bad. I think it's an interesting discussion too. Perhaps we need more smiley faces all around. :)

:) :) :) :)

I ain't mad at nobody, just thinking out loud and enjoying the discussion.

Does it frustrate me sometimes? Yep. But like you said, it's my hobby.

I never meant to suggest that $300 antique toys should be played with. My children, nieces, nephews and children of friends love to see my collection. I enjoy telling them about the toys. I have a big box of "played with" Joes sitting right next to the collection for anyone who wants to play.

Collecting can be a very good investment for your family, or business for income for your family. Much better than a 401K. Don't you wish you could have gotten your hands on $2,000 and then emptied a K-mart of Joes back in 84? What would they be worth now?

My pride and joy as a child was my 8th birthday present, an impossible to find at the time v1 Optimus Prime. I gave it to my son and it did get trashed. My wife felt bad and therefore picked one up at a yard sale for me about 1 1/2 years ago. Her sister in law made fun of her at the time. When it arrived at my house I was delighted to see that it was in dead mint in the box condition (not sealed). She paid $1. ;) That's what started my collection. :)


You're going to be buying $300 toys to play with your kids with? Or giving them toys out of your collection that are worth that much? I'm not, because I don't want them trashed.

And yes, I think many men get married by or about age 30 and their priorities tend to change. Personally, my priorities before marriage were beer, toys, and generally goofing off. Now they're very different, and I think that will hold true for a lot of collectors as time passes. I don't think you'll find too many people who would rather have a MOC PDD than to make their next two or three mortgage payments.

Just ask yourself why long-time and fairly famous collectors like wolfie and anthony mirro are getting out.

If you're one of those guys who are fortunate enough to where money isn't an issue for you.....then you're not typical. If you're one of those guys whose spouse doesn't mind you dropping hundreds of dollars on toys.....then you're not typical either.

Aire... awesome my friend... I love to see people collecting for reasons other than monitary values. My father was a collector of the 12" figs when he was young and originally gave me my first 3 3/4" Joes (and Sgt. Rock) as a nostalgia thing for him. It later became 'our' thing and then when my little brother came along, he was added to the Joe group. Eventhough I am now grown and out of the house and my little bro will be there soon enough (he's 16 now), my pops is still the most well known person at just about every toy/comic/collectible shop in central CA. He even got back into the 12" figs several years ago. As a matter of fact, the 12" figs was how he originally found the NorCal club (back in 94) and subseqently the rest of the collecting community.

Ok, back to topic, the prices are going to constantly change as has been noted with other speculative and collecting markets (wall street, housing, SW, etc.), however to generalize and say that in 10 or 20 years some item will be more expensive is just not true. Take a look at all those comics that came out in the early 90's (Valiant, Image, Defiant, etc.). Several of those were very expensive for a few years, but now, being a current Valiant collector, only the really hard to find items are expensive and even those are down from what they were 7 or 8 years ago... on average I pay about $0.25 for a common Valiant comic that has a cover price up to $2.95. :confused: So I guess my point is that if you are collecting an item, any item, specifically for what it might be worth in the future, you have to ask yourself, am I collecting this for the right reasons? I tend to agree with someone like Aire... it's all about the sentimental aspects of having fun!! ;)

imo comics and action figures just dont compare, they have been out forever already with little to no chance of coming back

as with any desirable collectable its almost guarantee'd to be worth more down the road than today, comics are about the only thing there is that wouldnt fall into this category, frankly no one cares about them unless the are ancient 1st copy or something along those lines

i am not in this to profit in the end, but someday these will be passed on to my grandsons hopefully, hopefully they'll keep them like i did, but if they dont the'll definitly profit

William, that is SO cool about your father and you and your brother!!! Thanks so much for sharing that!

I would love to talk with your father sometime- about 12" figures and about sharing this great hobby with our grown kids! It has been such a wonderful experience for me!

If you think he'd be Ok with that, please give him my email address airedevon@tx.rr.com

Thanks!
Aire

Don't get me wrong, I wasn't claiming that anyone in particular was 'in it for the money'. :)


comics are about the only thing there is that wouldnt fall into this category

What about trading cards (sports and non-sports)? There is still a market for them, but not the same market there was 5 or 10 or 15 years ago. Back then you would pay a huge price for a Sammy or BigMac, now you can't hardly give them away. I actually feel sorry for all those people who wasted their money getting those cards graded as now they have expensively made paperweights. :rolleyes: I know, apples and oranges, comparing AFs with comics/cards, but just trying to show that nothing is guaranteed.


frankly no one cares about them unless the are ancient 1st copy or something along those lines

As for comics, good, glad nobody else wants them, that way I can get them cheap, as I don't care what they are worth. I collect Valiant comics due the fact that I personally think they had the best writers and put out the best storylines. :cool:

William, that is SO cool about your father and you and your brother!!! Thanks so much for sharing that!

I would love to talk with your father sometime- about 12" figures and about sharing this great hobby with our grown kids! It has been such a wonderful experience for me!

If you think he'd be Ok with that, please give him my email address airedevon@tx.rr.com

Thanks!
Aire

I've been trying to get him to join YoJoe, but no go yet. I'll talk to him and see if he would like your info. He tends to be a more in-person collector, not as technobabbled as myself. :D

BTW, I finally did get a good camera, so if you still want to check out that customized 12" fig and Don Levine signed book, I'll take some pics and send you a link.

"on average I pay about $0.25 for a common Valiant comic that has a cover price up to $2.95"

Perfect example!

I don't collect for the investment, I collect because I want the stuff and I think it's cool stuff. That's why I hate to see prices going way up based on speculation. I think if the speculators would get out of the way, prices could come down and the collectors who do it for the love would be able to afford more. I had a rant about EBay stores not too long ago that said basically the same thing.

Personally, I think it's an awesome thing to collect something that isn't looked at as an "investment" because you can do it without going broke. Unfortunately, I think the 80s toy market is headed down the same path as the comic market did in the early 90s....speculators will eventually kill the market.

"Personally, I think it's an awesome thing to collect something that isn't looked at as an "investment" because you can do it without going broke. Unfortunately, I think the 80s toy market is headed down the same path as the comic market did in the early 90s....speculators will eventually kill the market.

I really strongly disagree with that statement.

First of all, if you collect ANYTHING - balls of dryer lint, what ever - it IS an investment. Your TIME has a financial rate, so does your effort and the cost of what ever it is that you collect. Your collection is a reflection of both the financial and the time investment you have made in your hobby.

Because of that investment, there is a certain dollar amount that can be applied - take for example the sale prices on some custom figures like Black Ice or even just casual customs on eBay. The figures are basically worthless, the parts are damaged/modified, they were never released as a retail product, so for all intents the "collectible" value is destroyed, and yet some of these sell in the hundreds of dollars. Why is that? Because you are buying the time and talent of a person, their effort, to buy something that you deem spectacular.

Your collection, my collection, exists because it has value. If G.I.Joe items were worthless, you would not have a single seller who would be bothered with the time to put together complete vehicles and figures - why would they? Their effort has a dollar-per-hour-per-effort rate. So claiming that the market will tank, that it will become a speculators market is just folly to say the least. SOME people will speculate on some items, but by and large, there are enough collectors that eBay has consistently over ten thousand auction items just about every day.

While someone may not mentally or morally place a dollar value on their collection, there is an inherent value never the less. The market will not collapse, collectors will not drop off. If anything, as Mike Taber said, you will see two strong markets that emerge from this one: High-end collectors who easily drop $2,000 on a rare or AFA carded figure and the people who like to spend their buck-fifty on a broken waist 83 Doc.

Regardless, the market will not fall out like the comics market of the early-to-mid 90s.

Yes, I collect partly as an investment. Absolutey. But I only collect things that I like, things that interest me, things that are fun for me, and things that bring back memories or have sentimental value. And I don't think there is anything wrong with starting an antique or collectibles business.


I really strongly disagree with that statement.

First of all, if you collect ANYTHING - balls of dryer lint, what ever - it IS an investment. Your TIME has a financial rate, so does your effort and the cost of what ever it is that you collect. Your collection is a reflection of both the financial and the time investment you have made in your hobby.

I have no qualms dropping $10, $50, $500, or $2K on a GI Joe collectible. By no means does that make me a speculator or an investor - after 16 years of collecting toys you'd think i would have cashed in my chips by now, if i were ;) - but i spend that amount because i realize that's what it takes to add a dead common, a rare, interesting or one of a kind item to my collection.

As Terry said, it's a collection i have a lot invested in time and money wise, but i'm not looking to sell. I've lost money on what i've paid for some things, should i ever decide to sell them, but i paid that because i wanted it. The payoff for my investment is the enjoyment and satisfaction i get from building a killer collection that i enjoy.

Personally, I think it's an awesome thing to collect something that isn't looked at as an "investment" because you can do it without going broke. Unfortunately, I think the 80s toy market is headed down the same path as the comic market did in the early 90s....speculators will eventually kill the market.

This isn't a perfectly analogous situation. I collect high grade early series Joes that are pushing 25 years old. If, back in 1991-1993, I had been chasing after high grade 25 year old comics (1966-1968), I would be doing JUST FINE now on my investment.

Yes early 1990s comics are garbage. So is anything produced at retail to be a collectible. The comic book market didn't implode. The fair weather fans left and the tacky stuff went away. If it happens with toys, I suspect it will be all the recent "adult targeted" stuff like chase figures and exclusives that'll collapse to near-zero values.

I really strongly disagree with that statement.

First of all, if you collect ANYTHING - balls of dryer lint, what ever - it IS an investment. Your TIME has a financial rate, so does your effort and the cost of what ever it is that you collect. Your collection is a reflection of both the financial and the time investment you have made in your hobby.

Because of that investment, there is a certain dollar amount that can be applied - take for example the sale prices on some custom figures like Black Ice or even just casual customs on eBay. The figures are basically worthless, the parts are damaged/modified, they were never released as a retail product, so for all intents the "collectible" value is destroyed, and yet some of these sell in the hundreds of dollars. Why is that? Because you are buying the time and talent of a person, their effort, to buy something that you deem spectacular.

Your collection, my collection, exists because it has value. If G.I.Joe items were worthless, you would not have a single seller who would be bothered with the time to put together complete vehicles and figures - why would they? Their effort has a dollar-per-hour-per-effort rate. So claiming that the market will tank, that it will become a speculators market is just folly to say the least. SOME people will speculate on some items, but by and large, there are enough collectors that eBay has consistently over ten thousand auction items just about every day.

While someone may not mentally or morally place a dollar value on their collection, there is an inherent value never the less. The market will not collapse, collectors will not drop off. If anything, as Mike Taber said, you will see two strong markets that emerge from this one: High-end collectors who easily drop $2,000 on a rare or AFA carded figure and the people who like to spend their buck-fifty on a broken waist 83 Doc.

Regardless, the market will not fall out like the comics market of the early-to-mid 90s.I wonder how much a big ball of dryer lint would get on Ebay?Listed in the bizarre catagory.:D

It seems that some are saying alot of the bidding on these figures was done by new, unaware collectors...or just speculators trying to invest to make a buck. I don't think that's completely correct. I know some of the collectors that bid (myself included) and I personally believe that they bought many of these figures for the price they did because they just simply really wanted the figs to add to their collections. And I know quite a few aren't newbies.


I personally don't collect for the investment, I collect because I want the stuff and I think it's cool stuff. I do it because I love collecting foreign joes. I think they're great. I waited a long time to get the chance to buy the figure I won. Years in fact. I'm sure some were for sale here and there, and cheaper than I paid, but I never saw them. I post in the wanted section all the time looking for certain figures and almost never get replies. So I had years to save up to afford the figure I won. And I went for it. It was the last of my top 3 grails. And if it may have been the figure used in the yojoe archives, it even adds a bit of coolness for me (not sure why but I think it's cool). Sure it was expensive, more so than I'd have liked, but it was something I really liked and have been after for years. I dont' regret the purchase at all. I dont' like hearing that I have been in the way of "collectors who do it for the love" getting items cheaper. I do it because I love it. I feel like some people think that the people who bought these items don't really love the hobby. That's just not true. But everyone is entitiled to their own opinion.


"I have no qualms dropping $10, $50, $500, or $2K on a GI Joe collectible. By no means does that make me a speculator or an investor - after 16 years of collecting toys you'd think i would have cashed in my chips by now, if i were - but i spend that amount because i realize that's what it takes to add a dead common, a rare, interesting or one of a kind item to my collection.

As Terry said, it's a collection i have a lot invested in time and money wise, but i'm not looking to sell. I've lost money on what i've paid for some things, should i ever decide to sell them, but i paid that because i wanted it. The payoff for my investment is the enjoyment and satisfaction i get from building a killer collection that i enjoy"


I pretty much feel the same as the above statements by Shane.

I think a few people might have misinterpreted what I was talking about when I brought up the speculators talk. I wasn't saying that these auctions were necessarily won by speculators, nor anyone in particular was a speculator. I was simply showing how a 'hot fad' of 80's collectibles (or 90's comics), in this case Joes and Valiant Comics, can quickly have the prices skyrocket, due to people who don't care about the hobby in as much of a sentimental way as a monitary way, that will purchase as much as they can and stash it away for 20+ years in the hopes of becoming millionares. That in itself makes the already rare/blah/blah/blah items that much harder to find and thus more expensive when you do find it after years of waiting and searching (BTW... congrats on finding what you were looking for D). Granted there are always other factors involved, such as overproduction and overestimation of growth that lead the failure of companies (case in point with Valiant, not to mention egos, etc., etc.) and thus a fallout of the given market, but conversly when you notice a high price on an item without any noticable reason, often times it just that they aren't available whether that be from speculators (few or many, but they do exist) or they are simply so rare or limited (the custom items Terry mentioned) that the prices are warranted. I don't blame anyone for how they collect, or for what they collect, I simply like to see the buck-a-joe, bury your figures, leave em in a tree, but have fun playing with them type of collectors too. I often spend more than I should on items (and have lost my share of money when I do sell/trade something away), but if I really want it, have the money and can find it, I'll buy it. ;)


If G.I.Joe items were worthless, you would not have a single seller who would be bothered with the time to put together complete vehicles and figures - why would they?

In the early/mid 90s, that was often the case. Even at some of the larger local and regional events the majority of vendors wouldn't take the time to do any of that, everything was usually just shoved in a big box. I recall a few times that my father would purchase entire booths for some extremely low amount like $200 or $300 and we would spend the next few hours filling up an extended cab van with Joes and Vehicles (the biggies and the small frys), Collectibles, Comics whatever... even a few of the phone/intercom systems from 82... all of it mixed and shoved into boxes, complete, incomplete, broken... :D

Anybody notice I finally picked up Kangor from those wolfie auctions after joking about that figure for so long.

I noticed, Trent. As soon as I saw the auction, I knew who the winner was going to be.

Wolfie is cool.
I bought some limited release gundams from him before. he has a good source of rare stuff. Its cool to see the insanely rare stuff he gets.