Disappointed... [Archive] - YoJoe.com Forums

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etmartin
06-22-2007, 08:59 AM
You know...I just read the Convention flyer for the Atlanta show and I was disappointed in the set of 15 figures.

I think they had a real good chance to release something impressive, and from the sounds of it, we'll get 8 "female" troopers and some characters. I, for one, feel that the troop builder thing should have ended with Destro. The Destro set and the Crimson set were impressive...Dreadnoks and this one...not so much. I wasn't all that impressed with last years Troop builder set.

With the Anniversary, they had the chance to blow our minds, and unless the pictures say differently, I WILL skip this set. I might pick up individual Joe figures on the boards or ebay depending on price...but, this set doesn't do it for me and I haven't even seen pictures. I hope the vehicles are good, because I'm underwhelmed right now...

etmartin

Patrick A. Riley
06-22-2007, 09:28 AM
I've learned not to get excited or be disappointed about new items until I see the pics. I will be disappointed if they use the old 82-83 body parts for the Joe originals in this set or the parts they used for them in the comic packs (from Roadblock, Hawk, Big Ben, etc.)

gunslingercbr
06-22-2007, 10:40 AM
troop builders are a necessity with these sets, as it allows them to reduce costs. if you think the sets are expensive now, imagine what it would be if you got 15 individual figures.

RedClaw
06-22-2007, 10:54 AM
Huh...wha??

Troopers don't off-set costs, they meet collector demands, but don't average out the costs.

gunslingercbr
06-22-2007, 11:56 AM
Huh...wha??

Troopers don't off-set costs, they meet collector demands, but don't average out the costs.
huh, what...indeed. when you only have to set up one machine to make one product, that is cheaper than having to set up multiple machines to make multiple products. that is just a basic principle of manufacturing that is not isolated to collector products. it is relevent to any product that is manufactured.

in this case, it reduces costs and satisfies collector demand, but has nothing to do with whether the figures are troopers or individual characters. it is just as cheap to manufacture 100 Dukes as it is to manufacture 100 Cobra Soldiers. but it is more expensive to manufacture 50 Cobra Troopers, 15 Dukes, 15 Flints, 10 Flash's and 10 Stalkers.

goodguyswearblack9
06-22-2007, 11:56 AM
I'd think that 15 individual figures would be more expensive because of tracking down molds and using a wider selection of paint.

gunslingercbr
06-22-2007, 12:02 PM
I'd think that 15 individual figures would be more expensive because of tracking down molds and using a wider selection of paint.
and you would be correct.

army builders in these sets is a cost saving practice that also happens to satisfy army building preferences.

Jay West
06-22-2007, 01:28 PM
I actually would like to see them use some of the new sculpt designs that are more like RAH. I don't want new sculpt Flint to make a return showing, but some of the later new sculpts would be nice molds to use.

Jay West
06-22-2007, 01:39 PM
Deleted. Sorry for the double post.

Jay West
06-22-2007, 01:41 PM
So if I am right, we are getting a brand new character - Doc II, the first figure for an established Joe - Sparks, the second version of Claymore, the sorta second version of Flash (unless you think astronaut when you think Flash) and the first ever female cobra troop builders. Everyone else has has at least 3 plus versions made, right? Well, it seems like it could be an awesome set.

quintonarledge
06-22-2007, 02:34 PM
OK, so whom exactly will be in the 15? And could you be more specific than "female troop builder"?

Jay West
06-22-2007, 03:09 PM
Cobra Officer (Female)
Cobra Trooper (Female)
Doc II (female)
Sparks
Rock and Roll
Claymore
Zap
Flash
Clutch
Grunt

http://www.mastercollector.com/neat/gijoe/atlanta/joe07brochure.cfm

AmbroseKalifornia
06-22-2007, 04:18 PM
I don't know, a couple of those sound pretty good to me, but how much will they be on the secondary market? I've never bought any con figures because I assumed them to be prohibitively expensive.

-AK

Adam16bit
06-22-2007, 05:10 PM
Your ability to wait out the hype determines the price. I got the 2003 convention set back in 2005 for about $100 (no box, bagged set) as well as the HISS II and some other goodies for what seemed to be a very fair price. Demand and the prices on these things jump up and down (at least since Operation Anaconda), so if you can be patient and wait it out a couple of years, you can save a few bucks.

Of course, you'll also be waiting two or so years.

Scrapiron-Scavanger
06-22-2007, 08:22 PM
It should be pointed out that it Lt. Claymore (Cobra agent in the cartoon) listed on MC, not Capt. Claymore (Brazilian SM).

gnawgahyde
06-22-2007, 09:29 PM
See now, I had the opposite reaction to the master-collector announcement. I said, "this set sounds like it will be really cool!" I remember reading in various posts how people wanted female cobra troops and here you go. People requested a new Doc figure and well here you go. A Sparks figure there you go. And let's not forget that there are always the souvenir figures. I smell a Billy figure, a Shooter, maybe a Wraith. There seems to be a comic book theme running here.
So....I for one am excited for September and can't wait to start seeing some pictures.
But, that's just me.
steve
gnawgahyde

Tim F.
06-22-2007, 10:34 PM
It should be pointed out that it Lt. Claymore (Cobra agent in the cartoon) listed on MC, not Capt. Claymore (Brazilian SM).

That sucks! Claymore was one of the few figures I planned on getting, but only if it was a v2 to the SMB Claymore, not if it another repaint of a cobra soldier.

Bigtattoo
06-23-2007, 10:10 AM
See now, I had the opposite reaction to the master-collector announcement. I said, "this set sounds like it will be really cool!" I remember reading in various posts how people wanted female cobra troops and here you go. People requested a new Doc figure and well here you go. A Sparks figure there you go. And let's not forget that there are always the souvenir figures.But, that's just me.
steve
gnawgahyde
You can please some of the people all the time.....
I agree, I quite like the idea of this set.
ScrapIron- if what you say is true, Ill be a wee bit disappointed, as Id also like to see (the Joe) Claymore.
Then again, itll be great to have another named Cobra officer.
I think MC have really set out to please the fans with this set.
How often has there been appeals for more female Cobras?
Itll be interesting to see what sculpts theyll use for these.
Ideally theyll create a newly tooled female torso.

Scrapiron-Scavanger
06-23-2007, 12:03 PM
ScrapIron- if what you say is true, Ill be a wee bit disappointed, as Id also like to see (the Joe) Claymore.
Then again, itll be great to have another named Cobra officer.

I tend to believe it is true. MC does not usually make mistakes on figure names, and the only Lt. Claymore known is a cobra officer (http://www.joecustoms.com/board/attachment.php?thumbnail=22602):


I think MC have really set out to please the fans with this set.
How often has there been appeals for more female Cobras?
Itll be interesting to see what sculpts theyll use for these.
Ideally theyll create a newly tooled female torso.

I can't wait to see pics also. If they do go all out and give us some newly molded female parts, I will be all over this set. Heck this is the first MC set that has REALLY interested me sense Crimson Convention set. I think this will be big! Especially sense Hasbro has stated numereous times that they will not do female army builders, due to lack of interest.

goodguyswearblack9
06-23-2007, 01:01 PM
See now, I had the opposite reaction to the master-collector announcement. I said, "this set sounds like it will be really cool!" I remember reading in various posts how people wanted female cobra troops and here you go. People requested a new Doc figure and well here you go. A Sparks figure there you go. And let's not forget that there are always the souvenir figures. I smell a Billy figure, a Shooter, maybe a Wraith. There seems to be a comic book theme running here.
So....I for one am excited for September and can't wait to start seeing some pictures.
But, that's just me.
steve
gnawgahyde



You're right about that; we have asked for these figures many times before and now we are getting them all in one box!!!!

stad
06-24-2007, 12:19 AM
To an extent, I have to agree. I kind of thought I was the only one. When I first read the brochure, I was a bit underwhelmed by the selection for this year's set. Looking forward to the Joes, and I remain hopeful for them, but I'm not to sure on the Cobra figures. I'm really, really hoping the "Cobra squad of shocktroopers" isn't all female. I have a bad feeling it is, but I'm not going to jump the gun until I actually see the pictures (which are truly well overdue!)

zartan85
06-24-2007, 11:59 AM
Tanks for the memories.............arghhhh....put a Steeler and Hiss Driver two pack into this set please!!!!!!!!!!!;)

DPrime
06-24-2007, 12:36 PM
I don't know what everyone's so disappointed about. Until we see pics we've really have nothing to go on. I'm excited about winter Joes (who aren't exclusively winter characters) and female troopers, but if they look terrible oh well...

stad
06-24-2007, 12:58 PM
I don't know what everyone's so disappointed about. Until we see pics we've really have nothing to go on. I'm excited about winter Joes (who aren't exclusively winter characters) and female troopers, but if they look terrible oh well...

I really am waiting to judge until I see the pics. Winter Joes, especially since they are not all a generic torso, really doesn't bother me, although I totally understand (and agree, to some point) with the people that would rather see these characters in uniforms that aren't snow exclusive. We'll have to wait and see the pics on these. I will be disappointed if the female Cobra troops are the "troop builder" figures of this set, which I have a feeling they will be. Sure, I'd love a female Cobra trooper, just not a whole squad of them.

And to echo the above post, a Steeler/HISS Driver 2 pack (or in some other pack) really should be a "must" for this theme!

DPrime
06-25-2007, 09:57 AM
I really am waiting to judge until I see the pics. Winter Joes, especially since they are not all a generic torso, really doesn't bother me, although I totally understand (and agree, to some point) with the people that would rather see these characters in uniforms that aren't snow exclusive.

That I don't understand either... other than Sparks and the female Doc, we already have these Joes in non-winter gear.

Cobras Toys
06-25-2007, 01:55 PM
Sounds like a cool set to me. If the pics do it justice i will buy a set. I cant believe its all ready getting bashed sight unseen. Lets just give it a chance. I am all for equality in cobras troops bring the female cobra troops out! I have my own custom female troops i hope they will blend in well...

GBPackRat
06-26-2007, 08:52 PM
I'm shocked...

I thought it was going to be the price that got people in arms, not the figures.

I'll hold off until I see the pictures, but I'm more concerned about the price hike than what figures are in the set.

Anyone think the price high might deal with new molds being created and used for the set?

If that's the case, I can understand the rather big jump in price.

Tanner

stad
06-26-2007, 10:35 PM
I'm shocked...

I thought it was going to be the price that got people in arms, not the figures.

I'll hold off until I see the pictures, but I'm more concerned about the price hike than what figures are in the set.

Anyone think the price high might deal with new molds being created and used for the set?

If that's the case, I can understand the rather big jump in price.

Tanner

I'm sure that will be the explanation. It may even be the whole story. But we were told the con set prices went up in 2004 because it was at Disney, but they never really did come back down after that. Not that I truly expected it too, once they got you paying the higher price, they're not gonna come back down, just like with gasoline. Now, I'm sure some sort of increase was necessary due to inflation/higher prices/etc., but if that's the story at least give us that as the excuse.

skinny
06-27-2007, 07:03 PM
Personally I think female troops are long overdue and since female characters arent readily accepted at retail level the con set is a perfect venue for these.
After attending a few conventions i get the feel that setting this up is a whole lot of hard work done by people who have a love for the hobby. Just from listening to Brian Savage a couple times you can understand all the decision making and "trades" that happen. hmm we want a new "x" but guess what that mold was destroyed so thats out but if we use this mold and that mold together we can make something similar.
Now as for the price hike I see a lot of guest speakers this year. and last year Sgt. Slaughter was there. You have to remember that the price includes the whole package not just the convention set. That would incorporate the price of admission, the parachute figures for the drop, the "special vehicle" the dinner, guest speakers, and im sure a lot more im missing or forgetting to mention.

Either way these conventions are great. If they werent I doubt i would want to go back again this year. I would buy more if the prices were lower however, I never got any of those other convention exclusives just because of that reason.

GBPackRat
06-27-2007, 09:46 PM
Aren't the attending and non-attending convention sets priced the same? If that's so, your logic doesn't stand up. Why should I be paying more so we can have all these "extra" things at the convention when I won't be there. Why do non-attending members have to carry the same load as those going. We already miss out on the "extra" vehicle...



Now as for the price hike I see a lot of guest speakers this year. and last year Sgt. Slaughter was there. You have to remember that the price includes the whole package not just the convention set. That would incorporate the price of admission, the parachute figures for the drop, the "special vehicle" the dinner, guest speakers, and im sure a lot more im missing or forgetting to mention.

skinny
06-27-2007, 10:19 PM
probably why i didnt buy the convention set last year when i couldnt go

Mutt7000
06-28-2007, 07:37 AM
Aren't the attending and non-attending convention sets priced the same? If that's so, your logic doesn't stand up. Why should I be paying more so we can have all these "extra" things at the convention when I won't be there. Why do non-attending members have to carry the same load as those going. We already miss out on the "extra" vehicle...



The prices are clearly stated, they are the same for both attending and non attending. Its right there in black and white, so its very simple= If you dont like the price dont buy the set. Its absurd that we have to go thru these type of post every single year. The prices are practically the same, look to spend around $450-500 if you want 1 of everything they offer. People already complaining about the set before we even see pics of it. No need to get on here or other boards and bash MC, because its not gonna do any good and the prices will still be the same next year. maybe they should just offer the set to those who attend so those who dont have something else to complain about.

etmartin
06-28-2007, 09:24 AM
Well,

I think maybe I wasn't clear enough with my original post...let's see if I can clarify...

I'm underwhelmed by what is being offered in this set. I'm not sure that what it will include lives up to what the expectations for a 25th anniversary set should include...

Yes, some collectors have been looking for female army builders. So far, though, the only Mastercollector army builders cheap enough to army build are last years figures. I don't know why those haven't caught on. As I stated in my first post...when I see the pictures, I might pick up individual figures on the net. You can usually find the figs you want for the prices you'll pay. I can't wait to see the vehicles...I might be extremely impressed by those.

What I do mean with my first post is that Mastercollector had an opportunity to do something with this set that could have been spectacular. I wouldn't have minded seeing a poll set up at last years convention that would have asked the collecting community who their 15 favorite figures from the past 25 years were. From that poll you could have put together a fan favorite set. That would have been good...I just don't think 8 female army builders and a female Doc (bringing Reloaded into the figures) is SPECIAL enough for the 25th annimversary. And why is the Reloaded Doc getting a figure before some of the other, more popular figures from the current comic.

It'll be nice to see what they can do with the other figures in the set...and I hope the two packs are great too...I want to want buy this set (yes...I just used want twice.)

As for price...you always pay for this...it's like complaining about food prices at restaurants. Prices can't stay the same forever.

Thanks,
etmartin

GBPackRat
06-28-2007, 10:31 PM
Ed,

Its more or less like complaining about the price of gas...

And for the record, yeah, I complain about that too...

Mutt, why can't we complain about it? I'm not going to beat it to a dead horse, but as the consumer we should be allow to give the manufacter feedback about what we like, dislike and etc... Everything doesn't always have to be peaches and cream. I also don't buy the agruement about voicing your opinion with your wallet. When I'm selling or trading with someone, I'd rather them express their displeasure and be able to correct it, rather then have them say nothing and never deal with me again.

All I'm pointing out is, this years price hike was higher than what I'd consider normal. Perhaps its just sticker shock, but I think there's a direct correlation the cost of something and the amount sold. As the price goes up, the amount sold goes down.

If I'm not allow to complain over the price, I don't want to hear MC up in arms about collectors not buying out the stock and leaving them sitting on a bunch of stuff...

Sorry for the rambling. Not trying to turn this into a flame war. I was posting my surprise that people were more concerned about the figures than the big price hike...

Tanner

ThMick
07-01-2007, 02:43 PM
I had always wondered just how true the maxim that female action figures don't sell as well was, but I actually was standing in a target action figure aisle the other day (staring at the aisle, willing 25th figures to magically appear) when I inadvertently overheard a lady trying to convince her son to get Padme and some other female characters from Star Wars (which I suspected she really wanted for herself, but wouldn't buy them.) The kid's reply was "no, I don't want any of the girls"

I never really understood this; heck, if they're good molds, I'd buy a set of 15 female characters. Call it the Femmes fatales or somesuch. I've always thought there should be more parity gender wise, especially in a secular terrorist organization, than was evident. I'd also like female characters that don't look like drag queens. Isn't The Baroness supposed to be hot?

I'm also going to wait for the pictures to decide, but are we even sure that ALL the troop builders will be female? Or will they be a mix of genders, like One male/ one female officer, two male/two female troopers? Or maybe another mix, each pack being a grab bag of genders? I'm sure that economics will come into play, as Gunslinger pointed out, but aren't we reasoning a little ahead of our data?

Urban Saboteur
07-01-2007, 03:23 PM
For the record my own thoughts are more with the 25th Anniversary Figures from Hasbro. I thought we'd see some mention of MC's offerings. Me personally, I will probably wait until I see some pictures first. :D
Rich

zartan85
07-03-2007, 07:49 PM
puzzle pieces are up with a pair of shock viper legs showing and rock and roll's guitar pick....looks like all the joes will have something personal on the box for each of them.....letter, guitar pick......ahhh I'll check back in 11 or so days!:p

mjgriffi
07-04-2007, 12:01 PM
I'm excited about this set. I had no preconceptions of what to expect, so what they are proposing sound reasonably exciting. Like many others have said, I'll wait to see the pictures before passing final judgment. MC is giving us some of what we asked for (female cobra troopers) and some comic characters. As for the price, it is very expensive, but if that is what it costs, then so be it.

zartan85
07-04-2007, 05:41 PM
I wonder if there will be any Street Fighter mold's used this year?

GI Steevy
07-05-2007, 11:26 AM
Ed,
All I'm pointing out is, this years price hike was higher than what I'd consider normal. Perhaps its just sticker shock, but I think there's a direct correlation the cost of something and the amount sold. As the price goes up, the amount sold goes down.

I think there are two major issues at play with the increased price:
1. I think MC is tooling a lot more parts than in previous years (as far as I know, there are no tools in existence for a female Cobra trooper unless they reuse Scarlett or Baroness's bodies, and while they could reuse lady Jaye parts, we would still need a new torso and head)
2. MC has likely cut production of these figures even lower than in previous years because, well, they still have product from the past 3 years sitting in the warehouse. The lower production numbers mean higher prices.

GBPackRat
07-05-2007, 11:55 AM
I think there are two major issues at play with the increased price:
1. I think MC is tooling a lot more parts than in previous years (as far as I know, there are no tools in existence for a female Cobra trooper unless they reuse Scarlett or Baroness's bodies, and while they could reuse lady Jaye parts, we would still need a new torso and head)
2. MC has likely cut production of these figures even lower than in previous years because, well, they still have product from the past 3 years sitting in the warehouse. The lower production numbers mean higher prices.

I hope that's the case... I thought the tooling might cause a spike. I hadn't heard of the lower production. Any idea what the run might be this year? Have they ever done this before, I can't remember off hand what the last boxed sets were run at?


Tanner

stad
07-05-2007, 12:50 PM
I hope that's the case... I thought the tooling might cause a spike. I hadn't heard of the lower production. Any idea what the run might be this year? Have they ever done this before, I can't remember off hand what the last boxed sets were run at?


Tanner

I'm pretty sure the last few sets were run at 750 pieces.