AFA Grading is a big issue lately.... [Archive] - YoJoe.com Forums

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badbrad
01-22-2008, 05:47 PM
AFA seems to be a big issue around here as of late.

But, I wanted to have at least one graded figure, so I sent in one of my Silver PDD's. (I have 2)
Got it back today graded at 85.
C90 B85 F90

I'm happy with it at least.

Erick
01-22-2008, 07:19 PM
Did you get it under the estimated time (according to your tier option)?

badbrad
01-22-2008, 07:47 PM
Did you get it under the estimated time (according to your tier option)?


I sent it on Jan. 2, I got it today, but I would have gotten it yesterday if the USPS wasn't closed.

I sent it Priority Mail, M-2 or Express Tier (10-15 days), so that's 20 days minus the holiday.
I'd say they made it, minus the time it spent in transit.

DevilKing
01-22-2008, 08:48 PM
I'm of the opinion that AFA grading is just an excuse to charge way more for a figure than it's actually worth. Mint condition is no longer good enough, people want to know they have a mint, mint on card, mint figure?

I just don't understand it. But, to each their own. Grading isn't a needed part of my experience in this hobby. As long as a carded vintage toy has a good appearance, isn't creased or crushed or dramatically faded, it's all good to me.

Bigtattoo
01-23-2008, 07:04 AM
AFA seems to be a big issue around here as of late.

But, I wanted to have at least one graded figure, so I sent in one of my Silver PDD's. (I have 2)
Got it back today graded at 85.
C90 B85 F90

I'm happy with it at least.

AFA has always been a big issue on here.

There have been a lot of threads thta have degenerated into flame wars and members even leaving because of all the arguments (there are rarely any pro- AFA posters anymore because they get flamed every time this topic comes up.)

Volleydan
01-23-2008, 09:11 AM
I have to disagree with you on one point, tat.

While it's true that AFA is a frequent topic of discussion on this board, and it's even true that the majority of people here are anti-AFA, I don't agree that people get flamed over it.

For one thing, I don't know if you've noticed but the mods here keep a pretty tight lid on any discussion that has a chance to get ugly. Far more so than any other board I've ever been on, actually. All things considered, it's annoying sometimes to see threads closed in the middle of a good - if spirited - debate, but I understand overall that it helps keep the spirit of the boards friendly.

For another thing, I don't think it's considered flaming to point out that you don't like something. I also don't think it's flaming to point out that you disagree with someone's motives for doing something. I've seen real flaming on other sites, and rarely does anything on this board come close.

I understand that my definition of flaming isn't the only one out there - heck, I even realize that the mods have a stricter definition of flaming than I do. And that's OK. But I have a debate background as well, and I learned a long time ago that you argue the points and not the person....and some people just don't like that.

If AFA fans don't come here anymore, it's likely because they know that they are in the minority here and they know that the popular view here isn't one that supports their vision for the hobby.

FAKER II
01-23-2008, 09:29 AM
I always find it funny when someone sells a figure on ebay that has been AFA graded as being in really crappy condition but they want more money for it just because it has been graded. I donít need AFA to tell me when a figure is in poor condition.

Syna3sthesia
01-23-2008, 09:39 AM
The only Authority to grade my toys or action figures is ME!

Erick
01-23-2008, 09:54 AM
Like if we didn't know how to grade a figure...:rolleyes:

However, to each their own...

Peace.

Volleydan
01-23-2008, 11:01 AM
I always find it funny when someone sells a figure on ebay that has been AFA graded as being in really crappy condition but they want more money for it just because it has been graded. I don’t need AFA to tell me when a figure is in poor condition.

So true....I don't know how often you see a MOMC ungraded figure for $50 and an AFA80 graded one for $80.

Who cares if it's graded - if it got a low grade? Wouldn't you rather have a truly mint one that simply hasn't been graded?

Average Joe
01-23-2008, 12:26 PM
All I can say is that AFA has done a heck of a marketing job.......

One of the smartest things they did there was to include AUTHORITY in the name. Who exactly dubbed them the authority? Themselves? lol

Corey Stinson
01-23-2008, 01:28 PM
Here is who AFA is good for (buyers):

I had a guy contact me recently on eBay about an item I was selling which I was advertising as mint on mint card. He asked me a litany of questions about the item, causing me to realize that he would be accepting nothing less than an absolute, pristine, C10 card. Not a C9 or a C9+, but a C10. A truly C10 card is nearly impossible to find even for new products. For people with buying criteria this stringent, buying sight-unseen, AFA graded starts to make sense. But, the vast majority of collectors (even packaged/carded collectors) aren't quite this rigorous and can get by w/o AFA grading.

Volleydan
01-23-2008, 02:57 PM
I had a guy contact me recently on eBay about an item I was selling which I was advertising as mint on mint card. He asked me a litany of questions about the item, causing me to realize that he would be accepting nothing less than an absolute, pristine, C10 card. Not a C9 or a C9+, but a C10. A truly C10 card is nearly impossible to find even for new products. For people with buying criteria this stringent, buying sight-unseen, AFA graded starts to make sense. But, the vast majority of collectors (even packaged/carded collectors) aren't quite this rigorous and can get by w/o AFA grading.

I would buy that argument on its face. The problem is that AFA has lost its credibility to the point where you can't say that an item is "perfect" just because it's a 95 on their scale.

There are simply too many stories of AFA grading loose figures with repro accessories, giving grades to resealed items, and so on. Heck, I've heard stories on this board about someone sending in an item and not liking the grade they got....so they opened it and resubmitted the same item and got a higher grade the second time.

If I'm a buyer who is that particular about the condition of my items, then I'm thinking that the only way I can buy items is if I can inspect them personally before I close the deal. AFA sure isn't going to help.

Average Joe
01-23-2008, 03:26 PM
Volleydan's examples lead me to go read this.

"Action Figure Authority (AFA) was formed due to the large amount of over grading that exists in the action figure market. This over grading only brings problems and frustration to its collectors.
Dealers, collectors and investors of action figures have no universal standard by which to judge. They all use their own definitions and standards to grade items. One mint c-10 item is completely different from another. Until now!
Standard of Integrity
AFA's employees will never buy or sell AFA graded action figures. We feel this would be a conflict of interest and impossible to maintain our unbiased approach.
AFA is committed to meet or exceed the action figure markets unique requirements while promoting a healthy and fun environment for all.
To best serve the needs of the action figure hobby we will work steadfastly towards these goals.

giving the collector the advantage by revealing each action figures true characteristics, thus promoting the healthy growth of sight unseen purchases of action figures.
to gain your trust and respect.
to create a consensus that AFA's grading standard accurately reflects the input of all collectors and dealers.
to promote interest in the collecting of action figures by the safe and enjoyable purchasing of AFA graded figures. Committed to:
listening... to the collector and dealers. We strongly value your opinions and suggestions to make our company better. We encourage you to contact us, so together we can make AFA the best 3rd party grading company it can be.
consistency and accuracy... in every grade we assign. Figures submitted are evaluated by professional graders incorporating a strict standard that insures each individual figure submitted is fairly graded based on its physical condition only, regardless of value or age.
unbiased treatment... of its customers. AFA follows a set of procedures that ensures each carded action figure will be graded without prejudice for/against its owners. AFA has No financial interest in your figure, eliminating any bias in the final grade assigned.
confidentiality... We maintain the strictest confidentiality with our customers, never releasing their information to anyone without their approval.
customer service... We are meticulous in our approach to customer service, observing the highest standards of honesty, integrity and ethical conduct. AFA will always give the customer prompt, courteous and efficient service."

Erick
01-23-2008, 03:44 PM
There are simply too many stories of AFA grading loose figures with repro accessories, giving grades to resealed items, and so on. Heck, I've heard stories on this board about someone sending in an item and not liking the grade they got....so they opened it and resubmitted the same item and got a higher grade the second time.

Heck! I remember that one...

dockingbay97
01-23-2008, 04:03 PM
Some of you forget that AFA was once owned in part by someone who owned a very large dealer of AFA items. Actually they were the first big retailer to sell AFA graded items. In part that is what put them on the map among collectors.

Later after they had told enough high end collectors about the shared ownership, the ownership of the various companies shifted among family members and friends so no longer does a person who owns part of AFA owns a part of that retailer. I have no proof of this but enough legit high end truthful people have told me this that I tend to believe it. You can also dig around and find some creative dodging of this issue on the Rebelscum forums by the person directly implicated as at least the part owner of both at the time.

Was AFA brought into existence to give that retailer a distinctive niche in the collecting community and an advantage over other companies? Do you think that if an item graded for that company is between an 80 and 85, it won't get rounded up to an 85 because of the connection? Maybe, maybe not but it is something to think about. I just don't think you can be 100% unbiased under these kinds of circumstances.

IMO you can't be an official grader and a dealer of those items without some suspicion that grades may not always be fairly distributed.

I am not saying anymore than that. Just digest that a bit and discuss.

Corey Stinson
01-23-2008, 04:06 PM
I would buy that argument on its face. The problem is that AFA has lost its credibility to the point where you can't say that an item is "perfect" just because it's a 95 on their scale.

There are simply too many stories of AFA grading loose figures with repro accessories, giving grades to resealed items, and so on.

I don't have any dog in that fight - haven't been paying much attention to their overall rep. If they are indeed doing those things, then it seems that they aren't much of an authority on anything except whether or not a piece of cardboard is creased.

gutstheberserker
01-23-2008, 04:24 PM
Some of you forget that AFA was once owned in part by someone who owned a very large dealer of AFA items. Actually they were the first big retailer to sell AFA graded items. In part that is what put them on the map among collectors.

Later after they had told enough high end collectors about the shared ownership, the ownership of the various companies shifted among family members and friends so no longer does a person who owns part of AFA owns a part of that retailer. I have no proof of this but enough legit high end truthful people have told me this that I tend to believe it. You can also dig around and find some creative dodging of this issue on the Rebelscum forums by the person directly implicated as at least the part owner of both at the time.

Was AFA brought into existence to give that retailer a distinctive niche in the collecting community and an advantage over other companies? Do you think that if an item graded for that company is between an 80 and 85, it won't get rounded up to an 85 because of the connection? Maybe, maybe not but it is something to think about. I just don't think you can be 100% unbiased under these kinds of circumstances.

IMO you can't be an official grader and a dealer of those items without some suspicion that grades may not always be fairly distributed.

I am not saying anymore than that. Just digest that a bit and discuss.

Interesting rumors. I heard that someone who use to post the same rumors frequently on rebelscum was banned and is now an admin at yojoe. That person now uses yojoe to promote an agenda because he had a falling out with the person and/or the company referenced above. Hey, but what do I know -- I'm just an AFA collector and this forum is for loose collectors right? I imagine that if this site had a dedicated section to MOC/MISB/AFA collectors that it would receive alot more hits, more ad revenue and be alot more diverse. So I wonder why sites like rebelscum have dedicated a section for AFA collectors, but yojoe does not. Hmmmmmm.

dockingbay97
01-23-2008, 04:30 PM
I am not saying you can't collect AFA graded items - more power to you if you want to.

I know of no one on the YoJoe staff who was banned from Rebelscum - and certainly not me. I am still an active member there. I am not for sure who you are trying to refer to.

DevilKing
01-23-2008, 04:53 PM
Some people translate their passion for their collection into a long-term investment. That's cool. It's their choice. But I'm not going to pay 30 extra bucks simply because the figure was sent off to be graded and came back certified in the condition I already knew it was in before it was mailed.

Basically, when I see a figure that's been AFA graded, I look elsewhere for it, because I'm not going to pay a premium for no good reason.

As for those who do, I'm glad you get satisfaction out of it. Don't let anyone tell you that you shouldn't.

gutstheberserker
01-23-2008, 05:20 PM
I am not saying you can't collect AFA graded items - more power to you if you want to.

I know of no one on the YoJoe staff who was banned from Rebelscum - and certainly not me. I am still an active member there. I am not for sure who you are trying to refer to.

I think you know exactly what I am talking about.

This site is incredibly narrow-minded. I think it is hilarious how some loose collectors are threatened by AFA and sealed collecting. Seriously, like the AFA bashers who are loose collectors have room to talk. How would you like it if all of the AFA collectors who never visit this site because they think it's a joke posted on here about how lame loose collecting is.

Other websites have evolved and welcome all facets of collecting regardless of whether it be loose, prototype, MOC, MISB or AFA. However, this website remains a dinosaur with almost 100% loose collecting and no dedicated section for sealed or AFA collectors.

What is a shame is I and others have obtained amazing knowledge with our contacts and collecting. I have sealed items that no one has even seen and aren't pictured on yojoe. I have prototype material that no one even knew existed. I guess in my "joeverse" (and yes that's a dig) there is a forum where I can post and talk to other members about sealed or AFA items without having to uninformed comments from AFA bashing loose collectors that don't know the first thing about high-end sealed collecting.

That's my 2 cents and I'm not coming back. I encourage you to check the news this July if you still question my collecting choice.

Average Joe
01-23-2008, 05:33 PM
I've never seen anything indicating that this was a pro-loose collecting site and an anti- sealed collecting site. Lots of people get sealed stuff here. Lots of members here collect loose stuff. I see people talking trash about the AFA organization, but not about MOC collectors. I myself would have no problem with AFA if they were exactly what they describe themselves as. But their system is extremely flawed. Does that opinion make me anti-MOC collecting?

dockingbay97
01-23-2008, 05:35 PM
I have no idea what you are talking about - seriously. You can continue this offline if you want to enlighten me. In the meantime I have to assume you are referring to myself, you are 100% wrong if you are. I have been a member there since 2002 and have never been banned, suspended, or in any other way removed from there. Or even in any trouble there.

http://threads.rebelscum.com/showprofile.php?Cat=&User=2841&page=69&what=showmembers

And I am sure TattooShane will happily vouch for this since he would be in full knowledge of any actions taken against me as an admin there.

And I know of no other YoJoe staff members who were banned there either.

And I am in no way bashing AFA collectors. To each their own I say. I have no right to tell anyone how to collect the things they like. In full disclosure I even own a couple of AFA graded toys and even had one of those graded myself.

I don't think I have even posted about AFA over the last couple of years other than to tell people not to fight about it. I am more tired of the bashing than you - I get the fun of cleaning up the mess afterwards.

I am just trying to point out the in my humble opinion a grading company should be 110% unbiased. When there is shared ownership with a dealer or even perceived shared ownership, I have to question how unbiased they are. Because if there is any shared interests between the two companies, you have a natural conflict of interest.

That is all.

So to those who collect AFA, keep on your collecting path.

To those who don't, keep on your collecting path.

This site isn't a dinosaur or anything else you describe. You don't quite understand the hobby I believe. You have a vintage Star Wars collecting mindset in a Joe hobby that hasn't matured to that level yet. This isn't meant as a dig against Joe collectors either. There just isn't the same interest in pre-production and rarities here as there is in the vintage SW world. This is slowly turning around in the past couple of years but it has a long way to go.

So maybe instead of telling us how ignorant we all are because we don't know what gems you have, why not start a thread here and post about them? Why not educate us on these items instead of throwing stones at us? You know it goes both ways - if you want respect, why not give us the same? I am certain we would all love to see what you have - I know I would.

Super Sport
01-23-2008, 05:41 PM
I had no idea this was a pro loose site... I feel so dirty.

Average Joe
01-23-2008, 05:43 PM
I had no idea this was a pro loose site... I feel so dirty.

Stay loose dude. :cool:

badbrad
01-23-2008, 05:50 PM
Wow, I just thought it would be cool to have an MOC figure sealed permanently in an acrylic box. They do look cool. ;) Everything else I have is in star cases.

thunt4
01-23-2008, 06:18 PM
These are always fun to read. I have never seen an afa thread that doesn't get turned into this.I collect everything in every form that it was made. I have a very large collection of everything both loose and moc/mib and graded. Simply put afa gives a 3rd party unbiased grade that makes it easy to find grades that are consistent. I have both my numerous share of moc unrgaded figures that were not a grade I was happy with and I don't care who you are everyones grading system is different that one anothers. You may find a collector you like but they only have so many things so when you go to the next collector his grades may be grossly off from what you expect. I like my items to be very nice in my own grading sense and for collectors that want a very nice item its easier to buy one graded afa item than it is to buy 4 or 5 non graded items till you find one you are happy with. Most rumors that have come up in the past have been proven to be false after they were discussed.Thats my own personal preference for it and its a ton easier to sell your extras then because most like an unbiased opinion instead of your own grade.

dominic.18
01-23-2008, 06:36 PM
so where is the joe website that specializes in sealed and afa items cause id like to check it out.

gotproblems
01-23-2008, 07:05 PM
Point referenced edittied out.


That's awesome.

DPrime
01-23-2008, 07:07 PM
I'm not a fan of AFA, or even sealed stuff (although I do open sealed stuff all the time), but Guts made some good points. I think there should definitely be a sealed/AFA section here.

Average Joe
01-23-2008, 07:09 PM
I'm not a fan of AFA, or even sealed stuff (although I do open sealed stuff all the time), but Guts made some good points. I think there should definitely be a sealed/AFA section here.

What's the point though. A toy is a toy whether it's sealed or loose. They both fall under the TOY section.

dockingbay97
01-23-2008, 07:17 PM
I'm not a fan of AFA, or even sealed stuff (although I do open sealed stuff all the time), but Guts made some good points. I think there should definitely be a sealed/AFA section here.

Basically it boils down to a forum can easily become unmanageable if you have a million categories for every small subject matter. You can quickly become overwhelmed.

I just don't see this anti MOC MISB mafia that a few people have referred to.

Patrick A. Riley
01-23-2008, 07:52 PM
I've kept stuff MOC just to keep the figure mint and complete. I have no obsession with MOC or loose

I just see no way in which AFA grading can be consistent or good for many collectors. Look at the BIN prices asked for on eBay for AFA graded items when compared to non-graded items. You wanna grade 'em? Then keep 'em for yourself! Allow others to get something for a price reasonable to them and then they can choose whether to grade it or not

NewOrder
01-23-2008, 08:09 PM
This site is incredibly narrow-minded. I think it is hilarious how some loose collectors are threatened by AFA and sealed collecting. Seriously, like the AFA bashers who are loose collectors have room to talk. How would you like it if all of the AFA collectors who never visit this site because they think it's a joke posted on here about how lame loose collecting is.

While I wouldn't go so far as to say that this site is incredibly narrow-minded, I would say that there is a very good deal of fan-boy facism on this site. For any that would argue otherwise, just look at all the AFA threads--or as Trent so eloquently pointed out--look at the threads that guts has previously posted in. Someone will ask a geniune question regarding AFA and there will be 10-20 subsequent posters who will impose their self-righteous collecting values onto the poster. Nevermind that they aren't even providing an answer to the orignal question, all that matters is that they get to hop on their moral pulpit and spew whatever third-hand dribble they read on another toy forum. (Just look at the site admin who, whenever given the chance, always mentions the assumed collusion between AFA, Tom Derby, and Cloud City.) Of course, my favorite is "they've been known to grade repros, reseals, and bootlegs." Exactly how many repros, reseals, and bootlegs has AFA graded? How many item has AFA graded since they've begun grading? One bootleg Beachcomber, one resealed ROTJ Admiral Ackbar and a loose Hawk? Out of 200k+ items? Wow.



Other websites have evolved and welcome all facets of collecting regardless of whether it be loose, prototype, MOC, MISB or AFA. However, this website remains a dinosaur with almost 100% loose collecting and no dedicated section for sealed or AFA collectors.

Others have brought up this concern in the past (vettefanatic, tattooshane, bigjohnwoo, guts, and maybe myself): this site remains stagant in terms of what it offers its collectors. Rebelscum has an AFA/3rd Party grader subforum which does really well. Other sites (toytraderz, behindthetoys) have prototype forums that do really well, and almost every other Star Wars site has a dedicated vintage subforum.

There are several carded/vintage collectors out there who probably would like to participate in this forum--if they didn't to tolerate comments like "no toy is worth more than $10," "why would you want something unopened," "AFA is for idiots," "I don't need someone to tell me what grade my (loose) figure is in," In X years, the rubber band will break/bubble will fall off," or cobra-empire's favorite, "that's guy's an idiot for spending that much money."



What is a shame is I and others have obtained amazing knowledge with our contacts and collecting. I have sealed items that no one has even seen and aren't pictured on yojoe. I have prototype material that no one even knew existed. I guess in my "joeverse" (and yes that's a dig) there is a forum where I can post and talk to other members about sealed or AFA items without having to read uninformed comments from AFA bashing loose collectors that don't know the first thing about high-end sealed collecting.

Given the kind of responses one typically sees on this forum regarding both AFA and prototype stuff, this isn't so much a shame as it is to be expected. Why would you or anyone else want to share anything with this site? I know Shane has never shown his Raven dynacast hardcopy on this forum (he did on another, non-GI JOE related forum), I wonder why? Would it matter? Probably not, though, because it isn't loose, you can't buy it on a Wal-Mart shelf for $5.99, and it doesn't come with 100 points of articulation.


That's my 2 cents and I'm not coming back. I encourage you to check the news this July if you still question my collecting choice.

Your original artwork, erm, I mean stuff is killer. If you ever find that joeverse, send me a link; I'd like to be in happyland, too.

Volleydan
01-23-2008, 10:22 PM
This site is incredibly narrow-minded. I think it is hilarious how some loose collectors are threatened by AFA and sealed collecting. Seriously, like the AFA bashers who are loose collectors have room to talk. How would you like it if all of the AFA collectors who never visit this site because they think it's a joke posted on here about how lame loose collecting is.

I haven't seen anyone indicate that they were "threatened" by AFA collecting, and especially by sealed collecting. The criticisms I have seen about AFA have all been centered on one of two topics: (1) lack of integrity in AFA's grading process or (2) sellers and dealers - not collectors - using AFA grading as an excuse to charge inflated prices for their items. I've seen your EBay store, and I think I know why you're offended by this.


What is a shame is I and others have obtained amazing knowledge with our contacts and collecting. I have sealed items that no one has even seen and aren't pictured on yojoe. I have prototype material that no one even knew existed. I guess in my "joeverse" (and yes that's a dig) there is a forum where I can post and talk to other members about sealed or AFA items without having to read uninformed comments from AFA bashing loose collectors that don't know the first thing about high-end sealed collecting.

Man, four sentences just to tell us all how great your collection is. Are you trying to make us miss you after you're gone? A better method would be to simply stop calling people names and talking down to them......and the self-admitted "digs" don't help either. Perhaps it would also help if every AFA related discusson didn't start with "how much is ________worth AFA85". Those sort of things don't make people think of collectors, but of investors and speculators.


That's my 2 cents and I'm not coming back. I encourage you to check the news this July if you still question my collecting choice.

After posting such a condescending rant like that, do you really expect anyone to miss you?

PrimeNYBT
01-23-2008, 10:24 PM
Look all I know is I am a loose collector. BUT, I get figures graded that either I won't open, won't display, Or won't play with. My most recent AFA submisson were 2 goldhead steel brigades loose complete, 2 lifttickets sealed in there baggies, and a decimator sealed in its bag. The goldheads I will never play with them. I'm more scared of damaging them. So I got them graded. Not so much for the grade but so they are safe and the can be displayed in a nice display case. The mint in baggie stuff, I won't open them, But putting them in a display case and with the U grade, I can't display them in there bags, it just looks bad.

I have a bunch of sealed on card figures. I don't search for them. These are just ones I came across for good priceand said what the heck. None of the cards are in great shape and I already have the figures loose. So I don't open them. There is no reason to open them. When i have the room they will display nicely with the loose ones

The point is, that for some, AFA is more of away to display your figures. Does the grade mean something maybe? maybe. But I'd rather be able to display them on a shelf in a really nice plastic case then have them in a cloudy bag in a draw.

I hope I made sense. I'm not trying to start a fight. Just trying to show another side of the story.

Volleydan
01-23-2008, 10:37 PM
Look all I know is I am a loose collector. BUT, I get figures graded that either I won't open, won't display, Or won't play with.....I'm more scared of damaging them. So I got them graded. Not so much for the grade but so they are safe and the can be displayed in a nice display case. The mint in baggie stuff, I won't open them, But putting them in a display case and with the U grade, I can't display them in there bags, it just looks bad.

The point is, that for some, AFA is more of away to display your figures. Does the grade mean something maybe? maybe. But I'd rather be able to display them on a shelf in a really nice plastic case then have them in a cloudy bag in a draw.

I hope I made sense. I'm not trying to start a fight. Just trying to show another side of the story.

You make perfect sense - at least to me. Like you, I'm primarily a loose collector, but I come across MOC figures sometimes that I like for whatever reason and I pick 'em up.

I've considered sending some of them in just for the case, but have always decided that it's too expensive for me - especially when there are places out there that you can go and simply buy the cases for a fraction of what AFA charges.

PrimeNYBT
01-23-2008, 10:47 PM
I've considered sending some of them in just for the case, but have always decided that it's too expensive for me - especially when there are places out there that you can go and simply buy the cases for a fraction of what AFA charges.

All of my figures are in cases from wholesalecases.com. They display nicely as well. But there are some figures that I would like to be in something better. The way they did the goldheads are fantastic.

Volleydan
01-23-2008, 10:53 PM
there is a very good deal of fan-boy facism on this site.....there will be 10-20 subsequent posters who will impose their self-righteous collecting values onto the poster.....they get to hop on their moral pulpit and spew whatever third-hand dribble they read on another toy forum.....because it isn't loose, you can't buy it on a Wal-Mart shelf for $5.99, and it doesn't come with 100 points of articulation

I can't believe that in four pages of responses, the only insulting, flaming comments like the ones above came from the pro-AFA side. Interesting, since you're so intent on proclaiming yourselves as being somehow victimized by the rest of us. I hate to sound like a broken record, but for all of the criticism of AFA on this thread, no one has criticized AFA collectors. In fact, I've seen phrases like "to each his own" and "whatever floats your boat".


Of course, my favorite is "they've been known to grade repros, reseals, and bootlegs." Exactly how many repros, reseals, and bootlegs has AFA graded? How many item has AFA graded since they've begun grading? One bootleg Beachcomber, one resealed ROTJ Admiral Ackbar and a loose Hawk? Out of 200k+ items? Wow.

Now you're actually debating the facts instead of just being insulting. Now I can work with this. Let's say that AFA has really only made 3 errors in their entire history (unlikely, but let's go with it).

Explain to me how they can charge on a tiered schedule and maintain their integrity. Why does it cost more to grade an item worth $1000 than for one worth $20? Either they have a set of procedures that they follow to ensure that the grading process is fair and consistent or they don't. A consistent set of procedures would indicate that they do the same amount of work for each submission.....so why different fees?

It doesn't take much business acumen to know that companies will focus their efforts on their highest profit segments. For a company whose sole product is its opinion, this perception can be damaging beyond imagination.

badbrad
01-23-2008, 11:14 PM
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51W95KQY7FL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-dp-500-arrow,TopRight,45,-64_OU01_AA240_SH20_.jpg

DPrime
01-24-2008, 08:39 AM
Basically it boils down to a forum can easily become unmanageable if you have a million categories for every small subject matter. You can quickly become overwhelmed.

I just don't see this anti MOC MISB mafia that a few people have referred to.

I see your point, and I do agree with you that there isn't an "anti-MOC/MISB" mafia here. However, I also agree that this forum tends to be somewhat centred on loose collecting. That's not a bad thing - I mean, that's what I LIKE, after all!

But hey, that's just my opinion. I'm obviously fine with Yojoe the way it is, but that may just be based on my own collecting focus, that's all I'm saying.

Bermuda Mohawk
01-24-2008, 10:47 AM
Others have brought up this concern in the past (vettefanatic, tattooshane, bigjohnwoo, guts, and maybe myself): this site remains stagant in terms of what it offers its collectors. Rebelscum has an AFA/3rd Party grader subforum which does really well. Other sites (toytraderz, behindthetoys) have prototype forums that do really well, and almost every other Star Wars site has a dedicated vintage subforum.

All it takes for such things to happen is a few threads to show that those topics could be popular. But it seems that none of those who "want" those types of sub forums are willing to work to get them. If you won't take the time to show they are in fact gonna work here, then why change what seems to be working quite well on this board?

Volleydan
01-24-2008, 11:51 AM
I don't think there is a need (or quite frankly) the demand to set aside special forums for MOC or AFA items. After all, it's the same toy whether it's in a bag or box or on a card or if it's loose. I think the AFA guys on this thread who suggested it are just venting because few people on this board like AFA and they've chosen to take that fact personally.

On the topic of new forums.....I do think it's a pretty neat idea to divide the "toys" forum into "vintage (1982-1994) and "new era" (1997-current). I like the 25th stuff, but it seems that it has taken over the board and there is often very little discussion about the vintage stuff.

On the other hand, the 25th stuff is what is rocking the Joe world right now, and as such you would have to expect it to be a primary topic of discussion among collectors. And I admit that it's easy for me to call for another forum, since I wouldn't be the one moderating it :D.

DevilKing
01-24-2008, 07:55 PM
Wow, what an amazing amount of animosity over such a minor issue. People out there that don't subscribe to AFA grading are in the right, as far as I'm concerned. But, that would be like saying there is a right and a wrong side to this issue. There simply is not.

Just because it's toy website doesn't mean we should act like children.

Dan
01-25-2008, 04:59 PM
I've been in the Joe world for quite a while, and while i don't post here very much I do on other boards and I pay attention to just about anything big happening in the collecting world whether it's a new line to hit the shelves or a new bootleg or other item found.

I see both the pros and the cons of AFA collecting and i think either way it's no big deal. Some people like peas some people like potatoes. However it is a crass thing to talk down to a general population of fans due to those differences. Though the only people to flat out do that in this thread are the pro AFA people I've seen the anti AFA crowd be just as belligerent.

As far as the collector ****ing contest goes I know there are plenty of guys in the joe and starwars communities that have awesome stuff in their collections. I think that hiding away cool prototypes and original artwork is far worse to the community then AFA could ever be. SO if there are all of these super collections that would just totally rock everyones world why doesn't anyone share pics of them? The only argument i ever hear against sharing info and pictures is that people are worried that their super rare item will be reproduced. Which is a fairly week argument. But hey whatever, I guess keeping other collectors in the dark is all apart of some peoples fun. Seriously knowledge of what exists and what is legit can only help the community as a hole. How many people were duped by the FX master fake bootlegs before the starwars community started sharing knowledge?

but what ever everyone can squirrel away all of their super awesome fun time stuff and just vaguely hint about it when they through a hissy fit and storm off. If collecting makes people so uptight I must be doing something wrong.

danielmd06
01-26-2008, 04:35 PM
I've been in the Joe world for quite a while, and while i don't post here very much I do on other boards and I pay attention to just about anything big happening in the collecting world whether it's a new line to hit the shelves or a new bootleg or other item found.

I see both the pros and the cons of AFA collecting and i think either way it's no big deal. Some people like peas some people like potatoes. However it is a crass thing to talk down to a general population of fans due to those differences. Though the only people to flat out do that in this thread are the pro AFA people I've seen the anti AFA crowd be just as belligerent.

As far as the collector ****ing contest goes I know there are plenty of guys in the joe and starwars communities that have awesome stuff in their collections. I think that hiding away cool prototypes and original artwork is far worse to the community then AFA could ever be. SO if there are all of these super collections that would just totally rock everyones world why doesn't anyone share pics of them? The only argument i ever hear against sharing info and pictures is that people are worried that their super rare item will be reproduced. Which is a fairly week argument. But hey whatever, I guess keeping other collectors in the dark is all apart of some peoples fun. Seriously knowledge of what exists and what is legit can only help the community as a hole. How many people were duped by the FX master fake bootlegs before the starwars community started sharing knowledge?

but what ever everyone can squirrel away all of their super awesome fun time stuff and just vaguely hint about it when they through a hissy fit and storm off. If collecting makes people so uptight I must be doing something wrong.

Right.

And I think that there is plenty of interest in a MOC section of the forums. How hard is it to make one more section? If we need more mods, then why not simply get another mod?

gotproblems
01-26-2008, 11:20 PM
If they do start splitting forums here, I hope they make the vintage/modern split before they start getting into anything else.