This has a broken o-ring. Don't bid on it:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120339031687

It's the same as this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=380073114967

It used to be in my collection. The seller is passing it off as undamaged after picking it up for only $115. I'm just about ready to get out of this hobby. I'm so sick of people like this. And the longer I collect, the more I realize that they're the majority.

And the never ending conflict between those in it for the love and those in it for a buck continues.....as long as people can make money doing something, it's only a matter of time before some troll somewhere starts trying to rip people off with it.

I'm like you - sometimes it all makes me want to quit in disgust.

This has a broken o-ring. Don't bid on it:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120339031687

It's the same as this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=380073114967

It used to be in my collection. The seller is passing it off as undamaged after picking it up for only $115. I'm just about ready to get out of this hobby. I'm so sick of people like this. And the longer I collect, the more I realize that they're the majority.Thanks man!

I wanted to upgrade my AFA 80 Flash 9-Back, and was prepared to pay a pretty penny for it!

What is AFA's grading on a figure MOC but with a snapped o-ring? Why would it matter if it has a snapped o-ring? It still is untouched and the card and bubble are the same. So what do you do with a graded figure MOC and in one of those bulky cases anyway? You can only hang so many on your wall, I'll bet most go in a box in a closet never to see the light of day.

What is AFA's grading on a figure MOC but with a snapped o-ring? Why would it matter if it has a snapped o-ring? It still is untouched and the card and bubble are the same.

it matters because they grade the figure too. broken is broken whether it's still sealed or not.

I wonder if this an example of a figure whose condition deteriorated after it was graded or simply an AFA error?

If nothing else, this should put the argument about whether MOC figures with broken o-rings exist to rest......

What is AFA's grading on a figure MOC but with a snapped o-ring? Why would it matter if it has a snapped o-ring? It still is untouched and the card and bubble are the same. So what do you do with a graded figure MOC and in one of those bulky cases anyway? You can only hang so many on your wall, I'll bet most go in a box in a closet never to see the light of day. If the O-ring is broke before submitting, the figure subgrade will get a 60/70 grade.

It matters if the owner doesn't want a figure with a broken O-ring.

The cases are meant to protect the collector's figure.

Some people display their AFA graded figures on their shelves or wherever they have space.

If they want to store their AFA graded figures in a box, that's their choice. Each collector has their own way of collecting Joes.

I wonder if this an example of a figure whose condition deteriorated after it was graded or simply an AFA error?

If nothing else, this should put the argument about whether MOC figures with broken o-rings exist to rest......
The item was graded in January of 2006.

There was a letter in the first auction that stated the figure was undamaged at the time it was submitted.

This was a case in which the figure deteriorated after it was graded.

I'm glad I don't have to worry about my AFA Transformers & MOTU doing this!

The item was graded in January of 2006.

There was a letter in the first auction that stated the figure was undamaged at the time it was submitted.

This was a case in which the figure deteriorated after it was graded.

I'm glad I don't have to worry about my AFA Transformers & MOTU doing this!

I thought MOTU figures had rubber bands on their legs. Won't those deteriorate?

I thought MOTU figures had rubber bands on their legs. Won't those deteriorate?

I'm not going to say that it's not possible, but it's far less likely than with a Joe. The rubber bands in MOTU figures are under much less stress than those in Joes....and they're thicker too.

It is possible to break them, but usually only under heavy play (or poor storage) conditions. I've never seen a MOC MOTU figure a with broken band.

I'm not going to say that it's not possible, but it's far less likely than with a Joe. The rubber bands in MOTU figures are under much less stress than those in Joes....and they're thicker too.

It is possible to break them, but usually only under heavy play (or poor storage) conditions. I've never seen a MOC MOTU figure a with broken band.


I guess I did play with my MOTU figures a lot back in the day, so yeah some of mine did finally break, but it was because the rubber band in the legs dried up and broke, not like I was always pulling on the legs. Maybe I stored them the wrong way too, ehh who knows, but there are fixes for that and I'll do it one of these days :P

edit:
so does this figures price value drop now, or is it still worth more because of the rarity of the card and the figure is still MOC? Does this mean the figure isn't mint anymore?

I thought MOTU figures had rubber bands on their legs. Won't those deteriorate?Correct, they do have rubber bands.

Eventually, they will all deteriorate, but I'll be gone when that happens.

In the 4 years that Ive collected AFA MOTU, I've never seen a MOTU figure with broken rubber bands.

I guess I did play with my MOTU figures a lot back in the day, so yeah some of mine did finally break, but it was because the rubber band in the legs dried up and broke, not like I was always pulling on the legs. Maybe I stored them the wrong way too, ehh who knows, but there are fixes for that and I'll do it one of these days :P

edit:
so does this figures price value drop now, or is it still worth more because of the rarity of the card and the figure is still MOC? Does this mean the figure isn't mint anymore?Yes, the price of the figure drops significantly.

In my opinion, once the O-ring breaks in a MOSC/AFA Joe, it's worthless.

Sorry guys, I was not trying to start an argument, so my appologies first. I don't collect MOC, so I don't have much knowledge on the subject. But can I assume this: If I purchase a gi joe MOC, let's say 1984 Storm Shadow graded for $1000.00, then later on the o-ring snapped or deteriorated then the figure is worthless?

I bought a Skypatrol figure on Ebay MOC, but the oring was snapped. I snatched it up for $35.00 but was going to open it anyway. I got a mint one with perfect parachute.

Could the person resubmit the figure to AFA for a U rating? Who gets to fix the oring if the package is opened? This is great stuff, thanks!!

In my opinion, once the O-ring breaks in a MOSC/AFA Joe, it's worthless.


Geez...you mean my MOC Funskool Wild Bill with broken o-ring is....*worthless*? :D

In all seriousness, this is one reason I've never been too hip on collecting MOC figures....once nature takes its course, they all end up as "openers" anyway. True, it might not happen until after I'm gone, but it *might* and I would prefer to spend that kind of money on multiple loose items.

On the other hand, MOC figures look so freaking cool....especially the early ones....

I emailed the seller and asked if the oring is broken. They said yes and said they would add that to the items description and they did:

On Nov-24-08 at 15:42:31 PST, seller added the following information:

hi i just wanted to let all interested bidder know that this figure has a damaged or broken o ring. i guess even though it i moc the bands can still dry rot over time. if u have bidded on this item as of today 11/24/08 and would like to retract ur bid u absolutly can. i have sent a message to the high bidder but anyone else that has bid before him will also be elgible to retract ur bid because i did forget to put that in the desciption. that is definately all that is wrong and the afa grade is true. i put a lot of stuff on ebay last night an fogot to put it in the description forthat i am sorry u can read my fb and see that everyone who has ever purchased a gi joe on ebay from me was pleased and had a pleaseant experience. just make sure if u want to retract ur bid do it within 24 hrs that would be 7:00 2marrow eve.

Sorry guys, I was not trying to start an argument, so my appologies first. I don't collect MOC, so I don't have much knowledge on the subject. But can I assume this: If I purchase a gi joe MOC, let's say 1984 Storm Shadow graded for $1000.00, then later on the o-ring snapped or deteriorated then the figure is worthless?

I bought a Skypatrol figure on Ebay MOC, but the oring was snapped. I snatched it up for $35.00 but was going to open it anyway. I got a mint one with perfect parachute.

Could the person resubmit the figure to AFA for a U rating? Who gets to fix the oring if the package is opened? This is great stuff, thanks!!It's all gravy baby!

I say "worthless" to me. ;)
Not totally worthless; you're $1000 Storm Shadow is now worth maybe $300.

For your situation, the Skypatrol purchase was a good buy!

You would not want to send this figure in for a U grade, because AFA takes the figure directly from the unopened package, and puts it in an acyrlic display case. The figure would get an AFA grade of U 60/70! Because AFA doesn't grade figures that have been restored, you would not be able to replace the O-ring and submit the figure for a loose AFA grade. Basically your option is to open the figure(Gasp! Did I just say that?!), replace the broken O-ring, and enjoy your mint loose figure.

Geez...you mean my MOC Funskool Wild Bill with broken o-ring is....*worthless*? :D

In all seriousness, this is one reason I've never been too hip on collecting MOC figures....once nature takes its course, they all end up as "openers" anyway. True, it might not happen until after I'm gone, but it *might* and I would prefer to spend that kind of money on multiple loose items.

On the other hand, MOC figures look so freaking cool....especially the early ones....LOL!

This is why my AFA Joes get the most TLC!

No arguments from me on this one! ;)

Thanks man!

I wanted to upgrade my AFA 80 Flash 9-Back, and was prepared to pay a pretty penny for it!

That's exactly why I bought it. To upgrade my AFA80 9-back. This came from the Premiere Collectibles auction this summer. It arrived with a broken O-ring, and Brian's Toys worked with me to file the claim with UPS, which was granted in full.

"NPS", the previous seller of the Flash, is likely UPS' ebay account. If you see their other auctions, a lot of what they sell are damaged statuettes and broken items. This is probably how UPS liquidates all its damage claims.


I wonder if this an example of a figure whose condition deteriorated after it was graded or simply an AFA error?

If nothing else, this should put the argument about whether MOC figures with broken o-rings exist to rest......

They certainly exist. I have several in my collection. A Lady Jaye, a Ripper, a Cobra Soldier, and for a brief time, this Flash. I don't believe it was a grading error. I think it broke in transit.


There was a letter in the first auction that stated the figure was undamaged at the time it was submitted.


I wrote that letter. It didn't state that exactly. Here is the text of the letter:




UPS Claim Inspector-


I’ve included this explanatory letter because the damage to the item is not obvious to a non-collector…


This GI Joe toy is constructed with a rubber band that runs from the torso through the pelvis to the legs that holds the figure together. This still-sealed toy, by displaying separation between its torso and pelvis as well the capability of independent movement of both pieces within its packaging bubble, shows to have snapped rubber band innards.

(Example of a broken band allowing a torso to come detached, move freely)

PICTURE OF BROKEN O-RING EXAMPLE

PICTURE OF BROKEN O-RING EXAMPLE

Looking up from underneath this figure with a flashlight, I can see the point at which the band is in fact broken. Bands can break through aggressive shaking, trauma, or temperature changes.


This damaged toy had been appraised and authenticated by a service called AFA, which analyzes vintage toys for signs of damage or restoration. The service assigned this figure a “grade” of 85. This is a very high appraisal of the figure’s condition and indicates that there was no major damage to this toy at the time of its encasement in this acrylic case.


If reappraised, this figure would fare much poorer, and its resale value would be tiny in comparison to an unbroken figure.



I emailed the seller and asked if the oring is broken. They said yes and said they would add that to the items description and they did:



Good.

---

In the past, I've sold items with ink touch ups and stated such in the auction descriptions. And I've sold vehicles that had tape come loose, and I'll sell them as "MIB-Sealed contents". And then I'll see these items get posted by the buyers a few weeks later with tape glued back down or no mention of the ink marks. And it's infuriating. Or I'll sell something that has a paper tear and then the buyer will resell it with a price tag placed over the paper tear. And I've seen high feedback buyer/sellers do this. I am just continually astonished by the volume of fraud in this hobby. Specifically this one. I've collected comic books and sports cards or whatever in the past and I've never encountered such serial offenses as I do in MOC/MISB GI Joe collecting.

With the 25th Line providing $7 look-alike replacements to nearly all vintage stuff now, I kind of just want to sell everything and repurchase my collection in modern form at 1/100th the price via BBTS.

But then, even the modern toys have people returning repacks to Walmarts and Targets so people can steal these $4 and $5 figures. What about this hobby attracts such jackassery?

Adult males collecting children's toys should be mortifyingly embarrassing enough as it is. But to lie and steal and cheat in deceitful schemes to acquire even more toys... wow. Words fail me.

I talked to a guy about cleaning off some price sticker residue on my Firefly, and he said "nah, put a price sticker over it". He claims that he does this to all of his Joes with tears, and then sends them in and they are graded. He managed to get a hold of a roll of old price stickers from a major retailer! :eek:

Just saw this today too-

http://cgi.ebay.com/1986-GI-JOE-BEACH-HEAD-BEACHHEAD-MOC-MOSC-RARE_W0QQitemZ160300924449QQihZ006QQcategoryZ2467Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I sold that to him last week. It has a tear from the price sticker, several creases around the hang hole, and the bubble is yellowed. All of which I mentioned in my auction, and now the seller hides the 3 creases and the yellow bubble and ups the price by 120 dollars. Sad.

Because AFA doesn't grade figures that have been restored, you would not be able to replace the O-ring and submit the figure for a loose AFA grade.


How would AFA know if you've replaced the o-ring? Do they take loose figures apart to check for this? Many stores sell replacement o-rings that are identical to the originals.

How would AFA know if you've replaced the o-ring? Do they take loose figures apart to check for this? Many stores sell replacement o-rings that are identical to the originals.This is from their website:

AFA will NOT grade any toys which exhibit restoration.
AFA reserves the right to determine what constitutes restoration. Examples: Resealed bubble, ink used to cover flaws.
AFA reserves the right to refuse any item for any reason.

There was a letter in the first auction that stated the figure was undamaged at the time it was submitted.


I wrote that letter. It didn't state that exactly. Here is the text of the letter:

This damaged toy had been appraised and authenticated by a service called AFA, which analyzes vintage toys for signs of damage or restoration. The service assigned this figure a “grade” of 85. This is a very high appraisal of the figure’s condition and indicates that there was no major damage to this toy at the time of its encasement in this acrylic case.

Did I miss something? ;)

This is from their website:

AFA will NOT grade any toys which exhibit restoration.
AFA reserves the right to determine what constitutes restoration. Examples: Resealed bubble, ink used to cover flaws.
AFA reserves the right to refuse any item for any reason.

But you could send it in for loose grading, right? Just not the next level of U, which is lower than MOC graded. This is making my head hurt think about having anything graded and then having something break. Makes my decision that much clearer.

But you could send it in for loose grading, right? Just not the next level of U, which is lower than MOC graded. This is making my head hurt think about having anything graded and then having something break. Makes my decision that much clearer. This is from their website:

AFA will NOT grade any toys which exhibit restoration.
AFA reserves the right to determine what constitutes restoration. Examples: Resealed bubble, ink used to cover flaws.
AFA reserves the right to refuse any item for any reason.

Did I miss something? ;)

Hmm. No you didn't. I misread what you wrote. Looking at it again, I'm not even sure how I misread it or what I thought you'd wrote. :confused:

Hmm. No you didn't. I misread what you wrote. Looking at it again, I'm not even sure how I misread it or what I thought you'd wrote. :confused:LOL! it happens to us all! :D

This is from their website:

AFA will NOT grade any toys which exhibit restoration.
AFA reserves the right to determine what constitutes restoration. Examples: Resealed bubble, ink used to cover flaws.
AFA reserves the right to refuse any item for any reason.
If you replace the O-ring, I think you would have to do a poor job of it in order to "exhibit restoration" Unless you're banging up the screws or scratching the paint or leaving the screws out or something, how would they know?

If you replace the O-ring, I think you would have to do a poor job of it in order to "exhibit restoration" Unless you're banging up the screws or scratching the paint or leaving the screws out or something, how would they know?They know when a bubble has been resealed. They know if the factory tape has been removed or replaced or altered. They know when a black marker is used to touch up the card. I'm sure they have a way to tell if the O-ring has been replaced.

They know when a bubble has been resealed. They know if the factory tape has been removed or replaced or altered. They know when a black marker is used to touch up the card. I'm sure they have a way to tell if the O-ring has been replaced.

They simply pull on it very strongly. If it broke it was an original O-Ring, if it doesn't it is a replaced one ;)

They simply pull on it very strongly. If it broke it was an original O-Ring, if it doesn't it is a replaced one ;)

Then, because they know no one will ever open the figure again and check it, they replace the original (now broken) o-ring with a new one....it's the perfect crime!!!!

In the 4 years that Ive collected AFA MOTU, I've never seen a MOTU figure with broken rubber bands.

Read 'em and weep. :)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220313515591

Granted it's Greek and of poorer quality but it's still snapped.

Read 'em and weep. :)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220313515591

Granted it's Greek and of poorer quality but it's still snapped.

Here's something to top that Skeletor. (The 3rd picture is unfocused because I didn't want to switch lenses.) Roadblock is still carded, perfectly sealed, on a very nice card.