WOW this is getting really old! AFA related. [Archive] - YoJoe.com Forums

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The Amazing Mutato
05-04-2009, 04:03 PM
So I decided to stop collecting loose figures and go with MOC figures. Well I will find one here and there, but the only real good place to find them is ebay. The only problem is 90% of all MOC figures are AFA graded! This really ticks me off! The reason why is because almost all the sellers on ebay are selling these AFA graded figures for no less than $100.00 each! I just want some decent MOC figures that are not AFA graded! Am I the only one that thinks this way?

dominic.18
05-04-2009, 04:32 PM
thats why I stopped collecting moc figures. I also prefer to have the moc figures in hand before I decide to put down any decent money on them. not every one else's mint is the same as mine. I do still have 91 to 94 carded but thats only cause they are easier to find complete that way.

hotdog
05-04-2009, 05:12 PM
thats why I stopped collecting moc figures. I also prefer to have the moc figures in hand before I decide to put down any decent money on them. not every one else's mint is the same as mine. I do still have 91 to 94 carded but thats only cause they are easier to find complete that way.
do you have pictures, or a link to your collection? you gotta let me see it.

karamazov80
05-04-2009, 05:35 PM
I feel the same way to some extent. I understand that many collectors want extremely mint, unopened figures, but it does make it hard for myself--a mostly loose collector who only wants a couple carded figures, but can never afford the AFA-graded, price-gouged versions that periodically appear on EBay.

dominic.18
05-04-2009, 05:35 PM
unfortunately they are all in 18 gallon tubs. I can take pictures of the tubs open but not sure I have the room to pull them all out.

Da_Last_2_Walk
05-04-2009, 05:53 PM
So I decided to stop collecting loose figures and go with MOC figures. Well I will find one here and there, but the only real good place to find them is ebay. The only problem is 90% of all MOC figures are AFA graded! This really ticks me off! The reason why is because almost all the sellers on ebay are selling these AFA graded figures for no less than $100.00 each! I just want some decent MOC figures that are not AFA graded! Am I the only one that thinks this way?So your blaming the AFA sellers on ebay because you can't find figures you want?

Did you ever stop to think that these sellers are selling to a specific group of collectors that pay higher prices for graded figures?

The Amazing Mutato
05-04-2009, 06:30 PM
So your blaming the AFA sellers on ebay because you can't find figures you want?

Did you ever stop to think that these sellers are selling to a specific group of collectors that pay higher prices for graded figures?


I can see that some collectors want perfect mint graded figures, but I think it is unfair for most that just want a good MOC figure (doesn't have to be perfect) to display. That is one of the main reasons I want the MOC figures is for the art.

But I have also been searching a lot of completed auctions, and it seems that the same sellers are relisting the same AFA graded figures over, and over and over again. You think they would be losing money on listing fees. To me the whole graded thing just doesn't make sense.

Urban Saboteur
05-04-2009, 07:13 PM
Not sure that you were aware but you might want to refer to this
http://forums.yojoe.com/showthread.php?t=56377

I'm sure the topic will stay open, just keep a distinct respect for the forum rules and things will be cool. :cool:

Da_Last_2_Walk
05-04-2009, 07:54 PM
I can see that some collectors want perfect mint graded figures, but I think it is unfair for most that just want a good MOC figure (doesn't have to be perfect) to display. That is one of the main reasons I want the MOC figures is for the art.What is unfair? It's unfair that a seller is selling an AFA item to collectors like me who only collect AFA graded toys? Sellers are selling AFA graded items instead of just MOC items.....that is their right.

I see a lot of MOSC Joes for sale on ebay. In fact, when I do a search for AFA Joes vs. MOC Joes on ebay, I get more hits for MOC Joes than AFA Joes?


But I have also been searching a lot of completed auctions, and it seems that the same sellers are relisting the same AFA graded figures over, and over and over again. You think they would be losing money on listing fees. To me the whole graded thing just doesn't make sense.Not every item sells on ebay. I've had to re-list an item a few times before it finally sold. It's all about timing.....Am I selling something that somebody really wants.....is what it boils down to.

I can list a 30 day buy it now auction for $.35. Even if I re-listed the item 10 times, that's only $3.50.

What doesn't make sense about AFA graded items? Having a Joe AFA graded make perfect sense to me.

Volleydan
05-04-2009, 08:07 PM
I'm another one who has gotten about as much of the loose stuff as I care to and have thought of collecting MOC items here and there. Here's my take on what's going on:

It's true that sellers, especially on EBay, have taken to selling mostly graded MOC items. It's becoming harder and harder to find ungraded MOC Joes. For me, this stinks because I don't want to pay 3-4 times what the item is worth simply because someone else looked at it and gave an opinion on its condition.

The sellers have a perfect right to sell figures like this....after all, they typically sell for higher prices and that's the name of the game for them. I respect that right....but I also have the right to resent it. The items that I want to collect simply aren't available right now, and that stinks for me. There's also the resentment I have as a collector toward those who treat Joes as strictly an "investment".

My only consolation is the knowledge that eventually the small portion of the market that is providing the demand for AFA items will have what they need and then there won't be a demand for these items. Once sellers start losing money on their "investment" in AFA grading, they'll stop having their items graded and not only will non-graded Joes be more readily available, but prices on AFA graded Joes will drop to more realistic levels.

hotdog
05-04-2009, 08:09 PM
I am trying hard to word this carefully, and this is a sincere question.

Did you ever stop to think that these sellers are selling to a specific group of collectors that pay higher prices for graded figures?

but are you getting a better product because of the afa grade?
when i started collecting figures in 00-01, paint rub and light scares or discoloration made the figure c-7 (acording to my lees guide), but it would seem to me (i saw a blue snaggletooth auction about 1 month ago) that a figure thusly worn was an afa grade 85 (c 8.5).
perhaps i do not understand the grading curve, but to me at least it seemed to generate a little confusion and hesitation to purchase.

The Amazing Mutato
05-04-2009, 08:32 PM
I am trying hard to word this carefully, and this is a sincere question.

but are you getting a better product because of the afa grade?
when i started collecting figures in 00-01, paint rub and light scares or discoloration made the figure c-7 (acording to my lees guide), but it would seem to me (i saw a blue snaggletooth auction about 1 month ago) that a figure thusly worn was an afa grade 85 (c 8.5).
perhaps i do not understand the grading curve, but to me at least it seemed to generate a little confusion and hesitation to purchase.


This does bring up a good point. I remember a few years ago there was a youtube video of a guy opening up a 7.5 (I think) Metal Head and getting it re-graded. And it came back as a 8.0! So I have very little faith in AFA stuff. I have also seen someone shell out over $1,000 for an AFA graded Storm Shadow, and about 3 months later the "O-ring" broke inside the pack! I thought that was ironic!

Anyhoo, I am really glad I started this thread. Someone just contacted me with a bunch of MOC figures he has for sale. NOT AFA graded, in great condition and NOT ONE over $35.00!!!!

Average Joe
05-04-2009, 09:03 PM
I agree with the majority in this thread. To pay more money, simply for someone's opinion does seem a bit foolish. Personally, it makes more sense for me to inspcet an item myself to determine its condition. I've tried, but I'll never understand anyone wanting to pay extra money for an item simply because someone else says it's in great condition. Do such a person value their own opinion less than some stranger's?

That being said, I don't fault the guys who get the stuff graded with the intent of selling it. They know there are people out there who will pay more than an item is worth, simply because AFA has layed their holy hands on the item. What baffles me besides the people who buy this AFA stuff, is the people who send items from their own personal collection to get graded with no intent on ever selling the item. Paying money, just to have someone else tell you that it's in good condition....foolish.

Lt. Night Viper
05-04-2009, 11:06 PM
I think I see and understand both sides on this. This is my take. I do believe that most people selling afa graded items seem to think it's worth more then it is. But then again, something is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. That being said, when you buy an afa graded item, you know what you are getting. You know the seller couldn't have tampered with it or been less then exact in its description. Buying things on ebay, you are at the mercy of that description and whatever picture they put in the auction.

As far as people being really down on the AFA, I think the whole idea of it is to have a standard people can trust. Personally, I'd feel better buying something graded by a third party like that, because they have no vested interest in that particular item. Like I mentioned above, that way I know someone hasn't tampered with it, especially when resealing seems to happen somewhat regularly. I watched a video on youtube with some guy reprinting a card, and resealing the figure with double sided tape. I'm sure there are more methods to the practice.

Now some people might not care if something is resealed, and that's fine. It just comes down to what you want to go after. But I also think that prices should drop some, they are kinda inflated really. I am not into joes to make money, but it would be nice to know that if I was forced to sell items, I could get my money back if not a little more then I paid :cool:

hotdog
05-05-2009, 12:25 AM
As far as people being really down on the AFA, I think the whole idea of it is to have a standard people can trust. Personally, I'd feel better buying something graded by a third party like that, because they have no vested interest in that particular item. Like I mentioned above, that way I know someone hasn't tampered with it, especially when resealing seems to happen somewhat regularly. I watched a video on youtube with some guy reprinting a card, and resealing the figure with double sided tape. I'm sure there are more methods to the practice.

I agree, but since they are generally paid by the owner of the item, does that bias the item high? obviously the best way to buy an item would be to actually see it, but that's not always possible. but if i want to depend on a third party grading system, then a c-7 should be a c-7, regardless of who looks at it.
I remember before AFA getting mad at sellers who would sell stuff as c-9.5 that had obviously been repaired. I got a grunt early on that had swivel arms, but a straight arm crotch- I think from brians toys, I know they sold me a shortfuse with broken thumbs once too as a c-7.5 (i bought it for the hands and was really ticked).
I am not bashing AFA, I guess I am just wondering if you guys that do buy AFA (not mint stuff that's a no brainer grade) find their grading dead on, or questionable, or do you just use it as a tool to sell your items (no shame in that i suppose).
I can see the benefits as a seller, but unless the system was dead on, I would still prefer to see the item, instead of depending on the AFA grade to tell what it's worth.
and as far as resealing items- that drives me nuts. I have seen carded items for sale at local flea markets that i know are fake carded figures (having 6-7 MOC vinyl caped jawas for instance), or resealed (chrome viper being replaced in the 5 pack comes to mind). I normally open the items i buy, but I still want legitimate items.

Lt. Night Viper
05-05-2009, 12:51 AM
To answer your question Hotdog, yes I do see differences in the grades. I have two graded vehicles, an 80 Darklon's Evader and an 85 Mobile Battle Bunker. I can see why the got two different grades.

Figures are a little harder I think. I have 7 graded figures that are straight 85's I think. I have another that is straight 90's. I'm not looking at them now, but the difference is tougher to tell.

Volleydan
05-05-2009, 09:16 AM
At one point in its early days, AFA was said to have common ownership with one of the major online toy retailers. They registered the company through someone's brother in law to cover their tracks, but word got out.

To me, that's a far worse potential indictment of their credibility than simple grading inconsistencies.....their site indicates that AFA employees are not allowed to have items graded, but I guess that rule doesn't apply to its owners :rolleyes: .

Didn't you ever wonder why a certain online toy store suddenly started selling so much high-grade AFA stuff about five years ago? That one store alone made AFA.

Bigbot
05-05-2009, 01:35 PM
Interesting topic...

I converted to MOC a while back and also find it challenging to find good quality pieces, specially key pieces, non-AFA graded. Having said that, I have to be much more careful when purchasing non-AFA because the sellers idea of mint may not be in line with mine.

I would have to say that there are examples of both out there. If you're looking for MOC and are tolerant of a few flaws here and there, but something that displays nice, most likely these pieces are not going to be graded anyway. Grading is "usually" reserved for finer pieces. You just have to be patient.

Yes, most of the AFA stuff is going to be more expensive. The genious of AFA is that they are providing a service that lends itself to internet sales and minimizes risk for higher end, quality collectors. Plus I like the extra protection (and look) the sealed acrylic cases provide against my greasy hands. :) Grading is the natural progression in any hobby that grows in demand and in which condition (beyond MOC) becomes a bigger factor. I compare it to rare coin collecting.

Personally, I welcome the trend. As we mature and grow, so does our hobby.

HardaTaq
05-05-2009, 02:17 PM
. As we mature and grow, so does our hobby.

As our wallets shrink. :D

Da_Last_2_Walk
05-05-2009, 03:49 PM
I'm another one who has gotten about as much of the loose stuff as I care to and have thought of collecting MOC items here and there. Here's my take on what's going on:

It's true that sellers, especially on EBay, have taken to selling mostly graded MOC items. It's becoming harder and harder to find ungraded MOC Joes. For me, this stinks because I don't want to pay 3-4 times what the item is worth simply because someone else looked at it and gave an opinion on its condition.Stop fighting it! AFA is calling you to join the dark side!

The AFA items are worth exactly what they are paid for. An AFA 85 Firefly that sells for $1500, is worth $1500 to both the seller and the buyer of the item.


The sellers have a perfect right to sell figures like this....after all, they typically sell for higher prices and that's the name of the game for them. I respect that right....but I also have the right to resent it. The items that I want to collect simply aren't available right now, and that stinks for me. There's also the resentment I have as a collector toward those who treat Joes as strictly an "investment".Not all sellers on ebay sell Joes strickly as investments. I for example, only sell AFA Joes when I upgrade to a better condition Joe. So if I'm selling an AFA 80 Firefly, it's because I got/want an AFA 85 Firefly.

I consider my AFA collection both a love and an investment. While I plan to keep my AFA collection, if I ever do sell it, I hope to get the most $ I can for it.


My only consolation is the knowledge that eventually the small portion of the market that is providing the demand for AFA items will have what they need and then there won't be a demand for these items. Once sellers start losing money on their "investment" in AFA grading, they'll stop having their items graded and not only will non-graded Joes be more readily available, but prices on AFA graded Joes will drop to more realistic levels.I would say that after checking the completed listings for AFA Joes, that the number of AFA sellers/collectors has remained strong, with a small growth due to the new 25th Toys and the new Movie.

I doubt the prices for MOC/AFA vintage Joes will ever go down. In my 4 years of collecting AFA Joes, the price of AFA Joes has risen every year.

Da_Last_2_Walk
05-05-2009, 03:50 PM
I am trying hard to word this carefully, and this is a sincere question.

but are you getting a better product because of the afa grade?
when i started collecting figures in 00-01, paint rub and light scares or discoloration made the figure c-7 (acording to my lees guide), but it would seem to me (i saw a blue snaggletooth auction about 1 month ago) that a figure thusly worn was an afa grade 85 (c 8.5).
perhaps i do not understand the grading curve, but to me at least it seemed to generate a little confusion and hesitation to purchase.Yes, I consider an AFA 85 Storm Shadow to be a better product than a C 8.5 MOC Storm Shadow.

I'm sure that the Lees Guide and AFA use different criteria for their grading scales.

AFA explains their grading scales in full detail. What exactly are you confused about?

Da_Last_2_Walk
05-05-2009, 03:50 PM
This does bring up a good point. I remember a few years ago there was a youtube video of a guy opening up a 7.5 (I think) Metal Head and getting it re-graded. And it came back as a 8.0! So I have very little faith in AFA stuff. I have also seen someone shell out over $1,000 for an AFA graded Storm Shadow, and about 3 months later the "O-ring" broke inside the pack! I thought that was ironic!Ahh yes, a famous AFA "horror story". As I said before, people tend to remember a negative statement about AFA, but never remember the positive statements.

Does AFA make mistakes.....sure they do. I doubt that any other service you use is always 100% perfect, and have never made a mistake. (I bet you always get everything exactly as you ordered in a drive-through)

There are people who have bought an AFA item, and have opened the case to "clean-up" the figure, and have resubmitted the figure and received a higher grade.....makes sense to me.


Anyhoo, I am really glad I started this thread. Someone just contacted me with a bunch of MOC figures he has for sale. NOT AFA graded, in great condition and NOT ONE over $35.00!!!!Congrats on your score!

Will you be posting them in a for sale thread? ;)

Da_Last_2_Walk
05-05-2009, 03:51 PM
I agree with the majority in this thread. To pay more money, simply for someone's opinion does seem a bit foolish. Personally, it makes more sense for me to inspcet an item myself to determine its condition. I've tried, but I'll never understand anyone wanting to pay extra money for an item simply because someone else says it's in great condition. Do such a person value their own opinion less than some stranger's?I consider somebody criticizing the way another person collects, to be foolish.

How are you getting the items to personally inspect? I assume you are buying them from a sellers description. When I buy AFA 85s, there is never a question of their condition. When I buy MOC, I get figures that are not in the same condition as the seller claimed. I would buy an AFA graded item over a seller's description or picture any day.


That being said, I don't fault the guys who get the stuff graded with the intent of selling it. They know there are people out there who will pay more than an item is worth, simply because AFA has layed their holy hands on the item. What baffles me besides the people who buy this AFA stuff, is the people who send items from their own personal collection to get graded with no intent on ever selling the item. Paying money, just to have someone else tell you that it's in good condition....foolish.I send my items to AFA to receive a grade and to protect them.

Again, criticizing the way another person collects, because you don't understand why.....foolish.

Da_Last_2_Walk
05-05-2009, 03:52 PM
Something is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. That being said, when you buy an afa graded item, you know what you are getting. You know the seller couldn't have tampered with it or been less then exact in its description. Buying things on ebay, you are at the mercy of that description and whatever picture they put in the auction.Agreed.


As far as people being really down on the AFA, I think the whole idea of it is to have a standard people can trust. Personally, I'd feel better buying something graded by a third party like that, because they have no vested interest in that particular item. Like I mentioned above, that way I know someone hasn't tampered with it, especially when resealing seems to happen somewhat regularly.Agreed.


Now some people might not care if something is resealed, and that's fine. It just comes down to what you want to go after. I am not into joes to make money, but it would be nice to know that if I was forced to sell items, I could get my money back if not a little more then I paid :cool:Agreed.

kurthalsey
05-05-2009, 03:53 PM
Final Frontier had a Zartan, MIB, not sealed. They wanted like 400 some bucks for it. Now AFA grades unsealed stuff, so Final Frontier sends it in, it grades an 80 Qualified, and now it is 995 bucks.

That is what is sort of silly to me.

Volleydan
05-05-2009, 04:16 PM
Final Frontier had a Zartan, MIB, not sealed. They wanted like 400 some bucks for it. Now AFA grades unsealed stuff, so Final Frontier sends it in, it grades an 80 Qualified, and now it is 995 bucks.

That is what is sort of silly to me.

We have a winner! It's the SAME TOY, but now the price is more than doubled???? That's the part that isn't founded in any sort of economic reality....and the "bubble" that will one day break.

Another example of people using AFA grading as a reason to jack prices is when they say "only one in existence!" Well, sure it is, until someone else sends one in for grading :rolleyes: . It's especially funny when they make the claim on something like "AFA 85 Topside". An AFA graded toy has no greater rarity than an ungraded one of the same condition....it's just a matter of whose hands the item has been through and whether or not it's received a "blessing". Ever stop to think that the only reason that it's the only one is because most people haven't bothered to send a $20 figure to AFA and pay $40 to have it graded?

One day, the buyers who are willing to pay this level of premium for a "guarantee of condition" will dry up and prices for AFA items will come down. Then, one of two things will happen....either those who don't currently collect AFA graded items will start getting in on it (since the 'premium' is closer to what they're willing to pay) or sellers will stop having items graded because they aren't getting the ROI that they want for the items.

Da_Last_2_Walk
05-05-2009, 04:32 PM
I agree, but since they are generally paid by the owner of the item, does that bias the item high? obviously the best way to buy an item would be to actually see it, but that's not always possible. but if i want to depend on a third party grading system, then a c-7 should be a c-7, regardless of who looks at it. If that was the case, you would never see AFA 50s, 60s & 70s, all you would see is AFA 90s.

I agree that a figure(that has not been "cleaned-up) should consistently receive the same grade regardless of the grader.


I remember before AFA getting mad at sellers who would sell stuff as c-9.5 that had obviously been repaired. I got a grunt early on that had swivel arms, but a straight arm crotch- I think from brians toys, I know they sold me a shortfuse with broken thumbs once too as a c-7.5 (i bought it for the hands and was really ticked). If that is true, then that is good that AFA wanted other sellers to be honest.


I am not bashing AFA, I guess I am just wondering if you guys that do buy AFA (not mint stuff that's a no brainer grade) find their grading dead on, or questionable, or do you just use it as a tool to sell your items (no shame in that i suppose). I understand that there is a range for each grade. For example, there is a low end AFA 85 and a high end AFA 85. I find that the AFA grades I receive are dead on. I sell my AFA Joes when I upgrade, and I appreciate the fact that I can command a higher price for my AFA graded item.


I can see the benefits as a seller, but unless the system was dead on, I would still prefer to see the item, instead of depending on the AFA grade to tell what it's worth. I don't know of any sellers that send their items to "possible" buyers, so the buyers can inspect the items. This is why I trust buying an AFA 85 figure over some seller claiming "This figure is in cash fresh condition.


and as far as resealing items- that drives me nuts. I have seen carded items for sale at local flea markets that i know are fake carded figures (having 6-7 MOC vinyl caped jawas for instance), or resealed (chrome viper being replaced in the 5 pack comes to mind). I normally open the items i buy, but I still want legitimate items.AFA does not grade resealed items. So you don't have to gamble with an AFA item being tampered with. However, you do take a gamble, when a MOC seller claims the item has not been resealed.

hotdog
05-05-2009, 04:40 PM
Yes, I consider an AFA 85 Storm Shadow to be a better product than a C 8.5 MOC Storm Shadow.

I'm sure that the Lees Guide and AFA use different criteria for their grading scales.

AFA explains their grading scales in full detail. What exactly are you confused about?
the grading scale. if they have their own criteria, i guess it's confusing because it looks (the grade) just like what we collectors have used all along, but they use it with different criteria.
but i do seem to see a niche for it. if i want something pristene mint- go with an afa graded item so there is no question. but if we are talking less then mint- or near mint, then there may be some discrepency due to opinions being involved? and regardless of AFA or not i should get my hands on it first (if it's not mint)?
I do have a fair amount of vintage carded/boxed SW and TF stuff. but nothing AFA. normally i open my boxed items up- I wasted a lot of money on a MIB soundwave and zartan for my boys Xmas one year. he loved them, but destroyed them both within a couple months.

hotdog
05-05-2009, 04:47 PM
I don't know of any sellers that send their items to "possible" buyers, so the buyers can inspect the items. This is why I trust buying an AFA 85 figure over some seller claiming "This figure is in cash fresh condition

right, and the fact that carded figures are harder to come by at the places I frequent is why i asked the question. my practice now is to not buy a collectors piece unless i can inspect it. most of us can tell a fake or reseal. i just have some reservations about trusting someone else to make that call for me, hense the post.

Da_Last_2_Walk
05-05-2009, 04:47 PM
At one point in its early days, AFA was said to have common ownership with one of the major online toy retailers. They registered the company through someone's brother in law to cover their tracks, but word got out.

To me, that's a far worse potential indictment of their credibility than simple grading inconsistencies.....their site indicates that AFA employees are not allowed to have items graded, but I guess that rule doesn't apply to its owners :rolleyes: .

Didn't you ever wonder why a certain online toy store suddenly started selling so much high-grade AFA stuff about five years ago? That one store alone made AFA.In the beginning Tom Derby may have owned AFA and Cloud City..... Currently, Brains Toys owns Cloud City.....

You're telling me that because this happened 5 years ago, if I send an item to AFA today, it's not going to get a credible grade?

The AFA collectors helped make AFA what it is today. Without us, AFA would have closed their doors.

Lt. Night Viper
05-05-2009, 04:54 PM
Final Frontier had a Zartan, MIB, not sealed. They wanted like 400 some bucks for it. Now AFA grades unsealed stuff, so Final Frontier sends it in, it grades an 80 Qualified, and now it is 995 bucks.

That is what is sort of silly to me.

That's what I'm talking about too! It's the same item, but getting it graded hikes the value? That I don't understand. On the other side of the coin, I would understand and agree that it should be worth a little more then the listed price, at least if it's a good grade. But not double or more, that's nuts :cool:

Da_Last_2_Walk
05-05-2009, 04:57 PM
Interesting topic...

I have to be much more careful when purchasing non-AFA because the sellers idea of mint may not be in line with mine. Agreed.


I would have to say that there are examples of both out there. If you're looking for MOC and are tolerant of a few flaws here and there, but something that displays nice, most likely these pieces are not going to be graded anyway. Grading is "usually" reserved for finer pieces. You just have to be patient. Agreed. I see a lot of MOC Joes for sale on ebay. A have also seen rare figures AFA graded, even though the grades are very low.


Yes, most of the AFA stuff is going to be more expensive. The genious of AFA is that they are providing a service that lends itself to internet sales and minimizes risk for higher end, quality collectors. Plus I like the extra protection (and look) the sealed acrylic cases provide against my greasy hands. :) Grading is the natural progression in any hobby that grows in demand and in which condition (beyond MOC) becomes a bigger factor. I compare it to rare coin collecting. Agreed.


Personally, I welcome the trend. As we mature and grow, so does our hobby.Agreed.

Da_Last_2_Walk
05-05-2009, 04:58 PM
As our wallets shrink. :DSo very true.

Average Joe
05-05-2009, 07:42 PM
AFA does not grade resealed items. So you don't have to gamble with an AFA item being tampered with.

LOL...sure they do. They may not realize they are grading a resealed figure, but they have done so several times. AFA isn't God, they can't know beyond a shadow of a doubt that something hasn't been tampered with. They are human just like you and me. To say something isn't tampered with, just because the mighty AFA doesn't think it is...is just going down that same path of trusting in a third party's OPINION. Unless something comes out of a sealed case, AFA can't know for sure. There are far too many "AFA horror stories" to ignore.

To claim something as fact just based on another human's opinion...foolish.

RedClaw
05-05-2009, 08:19 PM
Hey!

Cool it guys. Seriously, stop flooding and bickering.

DarkTraveler777
05-06-2009, 01:15 PM
To respond to the OP's question, no, I haven't noticed MOC figures being harder to come by. Perhaps they have risen in price, but I can't really attest to that since I have only been seriously collecting MOC/AFA figures for the last two years.

Like many on here I use eBay to get MOC and AFA figures. Lately I have been turning to MOC figures due to the variety of figures available. It does seem like the same AFA graded figures pop up week after week sold by the same large volume toy sellers. MOC figures tend to have more range in what is available which appeals to me because I can purchase a MOC figure and then have it sent to AFA for grading.

I just had a shipment of AFA toys come in and it may sound odd to many on here, but a large part of the pleasure gleaned from the AFA experience was opening the box and to see what grades my toys received. It is weird, I know, but I also get excited when handed back term papers from my professors, so chalk it up to me being a little sick in the head. ;)

Two of my primary concerns about the budding AFA collection that I have were already addressed earlier in this thread. The "legitimacy" of AFA's opinion based upon their questionable past, and the inevitable aging of figures that have already been graded. While there isn't much I can do about the first concern, it is the second concern that makes me question buying further into this hobby.

While I love these toys I am not really interested in having "broken" examples of the toys. If I had an opened collection and an O-ring broke I could repair it, but if a toy is graded, that broken O-ring will be a blighted reminder of the ravages of time staring back at me through an acrylic case. I have only a few early graded Joes, and while they are low AFA grades, the figures themselves are in great shape, but I would be lying if I said that every time I look at those figures I wasn’t wondering when one of their rings would snap.

So I view my collection as a double edged sword. While I love the card art and presentation of MOC/AFA figures I know that the toys will inevitably age and deteriorate. Every time I spend hundreds of dollars acquiring a new piece I wonder if the money is being spent in a foolish way. While that fear hasn’t stopped me yet from continuing with my collection it is getting harder and harder to justify the older figures both due to their high market prices and the extreme fragility of their condition.

One thing I will say for the grading, while having the “official grade” is nice, it is the protective case that I really appreciate. The hard acrylic case makes storing the figures that much easier and removes one concern out of the plethora of concerns involving storing and protecting these antique toys.

CobraLALALALA
05-06-2009, 04:45 PM
I've wanted to get into MOC collecting myself, but the prices are high as a cats back with an AFA grade attached to it, and as stated before, it's increasingly hard to find figures not graded.

It's a double edged sword for sure.