Its our fault............... [Archive] - YoJoe.com Forums

View Full Version : Its our fault...............



Hama-Eggs
06-10-2004, 11:28 AM
Hasbro is not at fault for going from real to funky toys. Its ours. Look at the time frame. We were all young when the 3 3/4" started. But we got older and stopped playing with them. Stopped buying them. Hasbro still was making them. And they had to find a niche in the market.

So they found that fantasy was the way to go now, all the realistic toys fell to the wayside because we, the kids, grew up. the new kids wanted all this neon crap. So hasbro just did what they had to do to survive.

Funny how the toy line died. And came back about the same time that us kids, now grown, could now afford to come back to joe. And sure enough, realistic joes came back as well. Hence the line now doing so well.

The real stuff is great!! It has saved the line. All that funky crud is just dragging it down. I feel for the kids who grew up with the funky stuff, and understand that they want to recapture thier youth as well. But IMHO it was that generations toy line that killed it in the first place. Its not thier fault, they could only have what was avaliable. We were lucky, we had the good stuff.

I hate hasbro for some of the crap they have put out and still do. But I love them for the rest, for it shows real thought and understanding of the toyline.

Flame me, kill me, ban me, but this is how I feel.

The Faceless Master
06-10-2004, 03:07 PM
I would have to disagree with you on that.

I completely stopped buying GIJoes in 1991, 92 when the figures were becoming too brightly neon colored, quality of the figures themselves were becoming questionable with the release of T-Crotch version & action attack, re-releasing the same figures with a slightly even more horrible paint scheme with the exact same weapons most of the time, the vehicles way too Tonka-ish with oversized wheels & again inappropriate neon colors, and really no cartoon to solidify my interest in them.
I would have to say that I liked the mid to late 80s figures cuz the cartoon gave them personality, and personality goes a long way.

Strangely enough, my interest in GIJoes was rejuvenated in late late 90s with the release of TRU exclusives which didnt have the neon eye-sore colors. ie Cobra Infantry Team, Vypra & the Rattler 4WD, etc
I also wasnt interested in acquiring any vehicles in the spytroops line til the Spytroops movie came out. All of a sudden I just WANTED to get a Sand Razor, I HAD to get a Desert Attack Chopper, I NEEDED to get a Crimson Command Copter. On the toyshelves they looked like a waste of $30, but after watching the cartoon, they had a storyline I could build upon.

With the re-release of T-crotch figures once again, and the re-emergence of action attack & neon colored figures like Heavy Water & Electric Eel, the 10,000th version of Duke or Shipwreck or WildBill, I see myself once again stopping any purchases of the GIjoe line.

So sorry to say Hama, it IS hasbro's fault.

I didnt even mention the genius idea of cancelling the Crimson 3-pack, cutting short wave 7.75 & the short supply of Cobra Infantry Troopers.

Blayloxzuess
06-10-2004, 04:19 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> I didnt even mention the genius idea of cancelling the Crimson 3-pack, cutting short wave 7.75 & the short supply of Cobra Infantry Troopers. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

so true Don :cool:

setesh20
06-10-2004, 04:33 PM
THIS IS TO YOU Hama-Eggs, First off you seem to have you gijoe history a little mixed up beacuse the original gijoe figures from the 60s has no real connetion to the 1980s figures. the 60s was all about realism with figures that resembled that of our US ARMED FORCES! But the 1980's series is a complete and total departure from that. it was based on a science ficton like cartoon series that featured some very deferent than normal characters.first example Bazooka when was the last time you saw an army man wearing a football jerzee, a military piolet dressed as a cowboy, or one dressed as(pardon my political incorrectness) an indian. if you go by uniforms you pretty much could go through all of gijoe and make your own village people. but it dosen't end there, when have our US Armed forces gone up against androids, cloned dictators, biker gangs or fought in space? sure there are realisms with in it, but this series is based on a work of fiction. to ask what makes it not realistic is like asking why thundercats, transformers, or spider-man arent real! thank you! :mad:

CobraLaLaLarry
06-10-2004, 04:48 PM
Why all the anger? We all have our opinions.It's just toys, man. Cool toys, but toys nonetheless smile.gif

setesh20
06-10-2004, 04:52 PM
I'M NOT ANGRY I WAS JUST BEING FUNNY! :D

tommysalo
06-10-2004, 05:11 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Funny how the toy line died. And came back about the same time that us kids, now grown, could now afford to come back to joe. And sure enough, realistic joes came back as well. Hence the line now doing so well. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The reason the toy line came back, as did many toy lines from the mid 80's, is because those of us who played with the figures in the early 80's now have kids of our own. Naturally, we will want to buy our kids the same toys we played with as a kid. Thus, Joe, Transformers, Ninja Turtles, Star Wars etc all hit the market again.

danyanda
06-10-2004, 05:31 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by setesh20:
THIS IS TO YOU Hama-Eggs, First off you seem to have you gijoe history a little mixed up beacuse the original gijoe figures from the 60s has no real connetion to the 1980s figures. the 60s was all about realism with figures that resembled that of our US ARMED FORCES! But the 1980's series is a complete and total departure from that. it was based on a science ficton like cartoon series that featured some very deferent than normal characters.first example Bazooka when was the last time you saw an army man wearing a football jerzee, a military piolet dressed as a cowboy, or one dressed as(pardon my political incorrectness) an indian. if you go by uniforms you pretty much could go through all of gijoe and make your own village people. but it dosen't end there, when have our US Armed forces gone up against androids, cloned dictators, biker gangs or fought in space? sure there are realisms with in it, but this series is based on a work of fiction. to ask what makes it not realistic is like asking why thundercats, transformers, or spider-man arent real! thank you! :mad:<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ummm, you seem to have your Joe history a little off, too. After the original 60s incarnation of what were in effect military replica toys, Joe then became part of the Adventure Team, which while not completely unrealistic perse basically tried to shed or at least underscore association with the military (due perhaps to the social/political climate at that time...) Then came a few more unrealistic elements (abominable snowman in 73 or 74). The mid to late 70s brought Atomic Man, Bullet Man (who wore what appears to be an actual bullet on his head
:rolleyes: ), The intruders who looked like wrestling figures, and Super Joe, who battled dinosaur like aliens.
In the 80s, Hasbro came up with something new...Rip off Star Wars (the line that had already been putting out 3 3/4" figs for a few years). Here's the clincher, though... they actually IMPROVED on it. They improved the articulation, gave each character a personal, indivudual bio, Yadda Yadda Yadda, A Real American Hero is born.
Despite the change in size and what was a huge coup in terms of characterization (many individuals fighting an identified enemy rather than one GI Joe joining every military unit in the world), GI Joe had made a huge step back towards it's roots as a military toy.
Of course we all know that over the years the scifi elements became more and more pervasive, which eventually led to the 90s and the demise of the 3 3/4" line until the 15th anniversery stuff came out. IMO what we are getting now is a mix. It is not as sci fi or as gimmicky as the last few years, but the sculpting has almost pushed it into becoming a new line while at the same time clinging to the RAH lines characters, nomeclature, and even accessories. For some reason I don't see this as a good idea, but hey, we get the old sculpt exclusives, so I'm happy about that. In terms of it being our fault that the line died... I have no idea what the original post was actually trying to say. It is our fault the line got neon because we didn't buy enough toys when they started turning neon? Most people see 87 or so as the beginning of the bad fantasy stuff, and I would bet that the majority of us were buying stuff in full swing then, so I can't agree there. Hasbro again tried to rip off the stuff that caught on (Mighty Morphing Power Rangers, TMNT I guess, whatever), and it apparently came back to bite them because it didn't really work out so well.

* most info was taken from Santelmo's Complete Enclyclopedia to GI Joe.

EagleEyeJoe
06-10-2004, 06:41 PM
Gahh... some people trying to be GI Joe experts need to go to school and learn the entire history of GI Joe.

A few points, starting from current on:

1) Crimson Guard 3 pack was cancelled because stores did not buy it. There was no retail outlet for it and after Hasbro took a loss on the BAT 6 pack, there was no reason to think that an online exclusive would work. Instead they decided to hold off and use the mold at another time.

2) The 1997 re-release of GI Joe was a testing of the waters and a joined effort between Hasbro and TRU. They were a way to guage collector interest and were not intended as "toys" for children to buy.

3) As far as the original line goes, GI Joe was decling from 1988 onward. It's strongest retail years was 1985-1987. There was another retail upswing from 89-91 but that was minor. During this time, Hasbro saw Ninja Turtles and Power Rangers emerge as hot toys. Many elements of these franchises were introduced to GI Joe to pull over consumers.

GI Joe's decline was primarily because it's core audience grew up. Those of us who got in on the ground floor were leaving GI Joe by 1987 because we were hitting our mid teens. Toys were not a major concern and you were kinda weird if you had them. The kids who came in on the second round were leaving in the late 80s for much the same reason. The in thing had become video games and toys in general were not that big.

By 1993 only a handful of stores still carried GI Joe merchandise. Select Wal Marts still carried the line, Target was already moving in another direction and fostering the idea of a return to the 12" scale.

Neon and ninjas did not kill GI Joe, it was simply a franchise that was not attracting attention anymore. It would have died if it had been the same in the mid 80s. The culture of kids at that time was totally different from those of us who had embraced GI Joe earlier.

Hasbro will do what is needed to keep GI Joe attractive to the mass market. No matter how well managed though, all toylines die because they outgrow their time periods.

UKGIJOE
06-10-2004, 11:57 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by donsbabyboo:
I would have to say that I liked the mid to late 80s figures cuz the cartoon gave them personality, and personality goes a long way.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree with that. Seeing the figures that i had and loved in the form of a cartoon made it more fun and interesting. It just made it seem more real to me.

setesh20
06-11-2004, 03:55 AM
you know what hasbro isn't taking full advantage of these new lines. for these last two lines they have made two straight to video movies, spytroops was okay and i'm sure Valor vs.Venom will be just as good. the probl;em is that to see these movies you have to buy the toys. it seems that television holds heavy sway on what sells in stores. if hasbro would create a new cartoon series to go along with the series, this generation would gain a connection with the stories, characters, and toys. i mean look at the new ninja turtles, transformers, and he-man i'm sure it helped there sales.

danyanda
06-11-2004, 04:56 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tattoo Shane:
Well in addition to the Joe history , a little bit of regular toy history has been skewed here as well.

Star Wars was definately not the first line to be produced in 3 3/4in scale. Mego had produced several super hero figures and of course the famous Micronauts line in that scale a few years before Star Wars came out. In addition to that, the Micronauts line was incredibly articulated for the time (albeit in a fragile sense) and i would say it was more that line that Hasbro borrowed from when advancing figure articulation for the Joe figures.

It's a small point but it's the spread of bad information on places like message boards that allows the ignorance of history to be propagated. ;)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


What I meant was that part of the reason GI Joes became smaller as a way to compete with Star Wars (as well as the whole petroleum crisis making bigger toys cost prohibitive). I guess that I implied that SW were the first 3 3/4" toys, but the intent was more that they were the main competition at the time. It was basically straight from the Encyclopedia info that I had, but anyway, I aquiese to your toy genius because I know next to nothing about anything but Joes.

Hama-Eggs
06-11-2004, 05:25 AM
Hey I am just happy to have generated response longer then "I agree"!!

Eagle hit it on the head as to what I was trying to state.

Kir Kanos
06-11-2004, 07:43 AM
So it seems like this comes in cycles, so to speak. The success of the line in the early to mid 80's, combined with our nostalgia, ensured the return of the 3 3/4" figs in the late 90's. So my question is, what will happen to the current line? I think something was special about joes in the early 80's. I don't see the current line having that same hold on kids today. Perhaps the line will gradually fade, until it is re-released periodically as "collectors editions", geared towards us. I am not trying to be cynical, just realistic. There are just more choices for kids today. Just my 2 cents...

CobraLaLaLarry
06-11-2004, 07:52 AM
Thank GOD Eagle Eye Joe was here to set us straight again with his condescending tone.
Hail King Geek. :rolleyes:

EagleEyeJoe
06-11-2004, 08:19 AM
Larry, you don't even want to see condenscending. I didn't see you come up with any information, did I? Nope. Back in line.

Back to a point up top, yes, Mego did come up with the original body type for the 3 3/4" figures and did quite well with them through the late 70s and early 80s. It was Mego's success that drove Hasbro to do GI Joe in a smaller format.

It wasn't to compete with SW though. The fear at the time was making them too much like SW figures would make them invisible on the shelves. There was a large push to make the new Joes 6" again like Super Joe. The decision was finally made to go 3 3/4" because it was:

1) A popular format for Mego
2) They could create lots of accessories
3) With oil at an all time high (for them at least) plastic had to be conserved.

The introduction of swivel arm battle grip in 1985 was included to distinguish the body type so Hasbro could patent it. Mego held the original patent to the traditional straight arm o-ring body.

CobraLaLaLarry
06-11-2004, 08:54 AM
You know what, Eagle Eye, I didn't have any info. So what? That's not the issue. The issue is that you come in here with this superior attitude, like we're all so stupid that only you can set us straight. Why do you have to be rude? Why can't you simply present your facts without lacing them with insults? Answer me that, please, that's all I want to know. Why do you have to be so rude? It's absolutely uncalled for.

UKGIJOE
06-11-2004, 10:23 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CobraLaLaLarry:
Why do you have to be rude? Why can't you simply present your facts without lacing them with insults? Answer me that, please, that's all I want to know. Why do you have to be so rude? It's absolutely uncalled for.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good point. We are here to help each other and share information. We are not here to criticise or be unnecessarily rude, there is no need for it. If u can't post without abusive or rude comments I don't think you should post. Just the way I feel but still.

CobraLaLaLarry
06-11-2004, 11:08 AM
Eagle Eye, I apologize for the geek comment, but I still think you need to tone down the attitude, I don't know why you feel the need to talk down to people. What gives you the right to treat others that way? It's inexcusable.

Two_Fisted
06-11-2004, 11:09 AM
I think its all a matter of taste. I like some of the neon stuff. Its not that bad. I'm a completist so I have all of the figures through the good and the bad. I think Hasbro just threw out some ideas to see what would stick. Some did and some didnt. You can tell by all the different lines they came out with.
By the way...the 60's original Joes had the same trouble. After the Vietnam war, parents and kids were slowly turning away from war toys. Thats when GI Joe went from the fighting soldier to the adventurer. Look at some of the early 70's stuff.

crimsonhawk
06-11-2004, 11:10 AM
Not to nitpick..but swivels came in 82-83...not 85. Swivel head in 85. :D

Deogg
06-11-2004, 11:13 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Good point. We are here to help each other and share information. We are not here to criticise or be unnecessarily rude, there is no need for it. If u can't post without abusive or rude comments I don't think you should post. Just the way I feel but still.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well said.


<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> I don't know why you feel the need to talk down to people. What gives you the right to treat others that way? It's inexcusable. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Again, well said.

[ June 11, 2004: Message edited by: Deogg ]

Tattoo Shane
06-11-2004, 01:14 PM
Well in addition to the Joe history , a little bit of regular toy history has been skewed here as well.

Star Wars was definately not the first line to be produced in 3 3/4in scale. Mego had produced several super hero figures and of course the famous Micronauts line in that scale a few years before Star Wars came out. In addition to that, the Micronauts line was incredibly articulated for the time (albeit in a fragile sense) and i would say it was more that line that Hasbro borrowed from when advancing figure articulation for the Joe figures.

It's a small point but it's the spread of bad information on places like message boards that allows the ignorance of history to be propagated. ;)