I recently bought off ebay a afa 1986 BAT graded 80. The picture depicted a good looking peice, but the description read "looks like the figure has been resealed, which I doubt because afa would never grade somethin like that". I thought "At $75 what a deal!".

When I got it the toy was AFA sealed,perfect and mint, exept the bubble was 100% seperated from the card. the bat, his weapons, and the bubble were all floating around the case. I was sad. The weird thing is that the bat was missing his machine gun hand, it is nowhere in the case.

So what do you guys think? Was the glue just old and gave out, or did I get scammed. Has anyone had anything like this happen to you?

Thanks for the help.

Neither screwed up.

If it is still afa sealed, the bubble glue just gave way.

It happens - the figures are old

You will see afa SW figures where the bubble has shattered due to age.

[ June 05, 2004: Message edited by: dockingbay97 ]

Docking bay,

do you think the seller should be responcible? The auction page showed a perfect bat, I paid $10 shipping and the toy got here ruined.

If the machine gun hand is missing, that sounds a little odd. I don't see how it could have gotten rated with one of the pieces missing, unless they agreed that it was missing to begin with...even then, sounds weird.

If you paid for shipping insurance then you can have the seller submit a claim to the postal service. & It becomes a gray area w/ respect to the sellers fault ... if it was like that to begin w/ Id say yes especially that he didnt say so in the auction.

Thats my take

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=2467&item=5901860997&rd=1

[ June 05, 2004: Message edited by: themoney75 ]

that is really weird- did you contact the seller yet?
the missing part is REALLY odd. you should be able to check up on that with the AFA number i think, dont they have records?

if the gun is missing you got screwed plain and simple

I saw that auction and almost bought if but passed, something didn't seem right about it. Sounds like I made a good choice. I guess maybe you were ripped but the seller did warn that he thought the bubble was resealed. But that part about the missing peice, that makes the whole thing sound fishy.

Just looking at the auction link, I would have smelled something screwy. Not saying anyone's trying to take you for a ride, but I totally would have skipped bidding on that.

-PJ

Thanks yall

How would an afa case get opened and resealed perfectly?

the seller has not contacted me after 2 emails. Does anybody know how to gethis phone #?

start a complaint with ebay, they will give you his contact info, or at least the info he gave ebay!

did you check the afa site to make sure its legit?

thats pretty strange, i'd be amped if someone sold me something afa graded and it came inside the case in pieces, i mean the whole point of afa is mainly for not getting a bad deal for online auctions, how could you not mention to the buyer that its in pieces inside the case? i'm guessing you should leave this guy very very negative feedback unless he takes some action

man i was looking at the guy who sold it to you, man that guy is a wicked stupid buyer lol, he like overpays X10 for every item i looked at...thats hilarious...

im wondering when/if we will start to see fake AFA graded figures! this is very suspicious! things are about to get tricky and AFA will be very scrutanized (sp?) when the first one does come around!

I can't remember seeing an AFA case that looked like that. I'm probably total wrong, but doesn't AFA have red lettering on the labels and arn't the labels on the bottom of the case. Maybe they switched style somewhere along the line? IS that possibly and older graded figure before AFA new what they were doing?

i think thats the way the new ones look heh

That auction does seem kind of fishy. The item description is a little short and the picture seems too far off on purpose so you can't read the AFA grading # on it.

Hate to drag up a really old post, but I just read this for the first time. So i'm wondering if anyone else has ever had problems with figures after they've been AFA graded. (Bubbles lifting, o-rings snapping, or figures yellowing.) I've recently seen an AFA 85 Gung-Ho with a cracked bubble for auction thats why I ask.

actually a couple collector friends of mine will not accept anything AFA graded,this has to do with the fact they had 3 items graded at 3 differant times and got back 3 different ratings with a 2. differance,and there was no change in the items being graded,furthermore they have had people show them AFA graded items that would have been better off if they were not graded or on the cards.

So i'm wondering if anyone else has ever had problems with figures after they've been AFA graded. (Bubbles lifting, o-rings snapping, or figures yellowing.)

Interesting thread. I've never personally had any problems with graded figures that I've gotten.

I have once seen a 1984 Firefly graded by AFA that had snapped an o-ring. I've also been hearing for quite some time about the "bubbles separating from the cardback" problem. I always assumed that the bubble separation was due to (1) incomplete sealing in the factory and (2) the slow, inevitable process of time. I've also heard that heat and humidity might play a role in the bubble phenomenon. It happens. They're vintage toys. They're not going to last forever.

That being said, I'm not going to quit collecting them. ;)

Well, as I've never had anything graded AFA (and I have literally 7,000+ carded figures), there is SOMETHING IMPORTANT that I've noticed with my older MOC figures during the past year-to-six months of 2005.

It seems that even though I keep all of my MOC figures stored in a climate controlled space, away from sunlight and natural light, some of my older carded figures' (12-back Star Wars, Black Hole, Micronauts, etc. [pre-1980] 3 3/4" figs.) bubbles are getting "the shaft" - i.e. - the glue that sealed the bubbles is staring to 'break down'. In VERY FEW INSTANCES, but in some instances nonetheless.

Not so with my MEGO 8" MOC figures or Comic Action Super Heroes (due to the nature of their chipboard cardbacks), but with any other 3 3/4 characters from the late 70's early 80's, whose cardbacks are slightly glossy or embossed.

Now, since I bought these (or MOST of these [75-80%]) at retail, this leads me to believe that some carded items that have been AFA graded might be in trouble of this glue breakdown over the next five or so years. This is B.A.D. for you honest guys who want to make some honest bucks.

Since I'll never be re-selling mine, I personally feel comfortable with a glue-gun and some glue-sticks to reseal these bubbles back onto their cards, but for you investors who are using AFA as a business, I am VERY concerned about this glue-to-card breakdown.

I'd be interested to hear from Big John Woo or Type S Toys - if they've heard of this type of breakdown - and how it can be avoided and alleviated.

What to do? What to do?

-- MWB

This is a tough one. Afa would not have graded a resealed item because they just dont do that and from my understanding they have lights that they can if it was or not. As far as he goes the seller he may have seen it fall off and just wanted to unload it.Did it have subgrades or only the one grade.Missing a weapon stinks but its not really a scam. Afa grades the card bubble and figure and they don't really check to see if its all in there because if its factory sealed then they assume its good. I have had some strange things happen in the mail due to climate changes. I bought a dead mint flint and when i got i his head burst through the bubble. I was sooooooooooooooo disappointed because it would have got a 90 no problem but just from being tossed around and a lot of temperature changes it shot through.

actually a conclusion me and my collector friends have come to is that the AFA packaging might also cause cards to suffer from what we call the hot house affect,said cards sealed in these containers with even the slightest change in temps of even a few degrees will cause the glue on cards to moisten and then dry and loosen the bubble,humidity is the clue. and i predict that AFA grading might possibly go down the tubes unless they come with a better packageing which is not possible unless once they are graded you place them into a set temperature container that never deviates in temperature and form of light oh also you will not be able to look at them again,but its worth it to keep your cards in mint cond.

Mark, Clutch, & Thunt4 are touching on something pretty scary here, just put aside your biases for a minute, and hear me out please. . .

Think about it, a carded figure is a fragile item. A showpiece in itself. So what do we do? We buy a carded figure on ebay and get it shipped to us.

It arrives shaken and jostled around an unknown number of times, loosening the bubble ever-so-slightly. I bought quite a few carded myself (to open), and I'm always shocked at how easily the bubble seems to fall right off.

But some of us don't stop there, do we? ;)

We ship it out again to AFA to get it graded and slabbed, THEN they ship it back in a container that does nothing to support the figure and bubble hanging inside. Imagine the weight imposed on a bubble covering up
say. . .Scrap-Iron v.1 w/all of his accessories. All of that motion from multiple ships is transferred to the weakest point on the card. . .the glue.

So now every carded figure bought on ebay, shipped, and re-shipped to be slabbed undergoes the same (harsh) disturbances. Thus, threatening to actually destroy carded figures. . .instead of preserving them.

Ironic, isn't it? :)

-PJ

I'll admit I'm in a state of denial about the bubble-lifting/ o-ring snapping inevitability of my graded MOC collection.

I've made an agreement with myself that as soon as 2 or 3 of them experience total structural failure, I'll consider selling off my collection. I'll go back to that loose collection I've had since childhood.

I'm just hoping that by storing the cards flat on their back to minimize the stress of gravity, and keeping them temperature/humidity controlled, I'm prolonging their shelflives. Either long enough to ride out my interest in this hobby or long enough that I become fabulously wealthy in life so that I can have no compunctions about opening up the cases and regluing them when they finally do give out.

I've never had an o-ring snap in my ownership. vettfanatic has.

I've had a couple bubbles lift during shipping. The way to spot a soon-to-lift bubble is by the discoloration of the glue. It turns kind of a greenish color. That's one thing I look for when buying a MOC figure. I wouldn't trust a green-glue bubble for more than a couple mailings. I figure bubbles with no glue-greening have got several good years ahead of them. I've never known a bubble to 'spontaneously lift' outside of heavy rough handling.

But I have had tape flake off of MISB vehicles. That fibrous tape is infinitely more likely to lift off than bubbles, IMO. If people are in the MISB/MOC game as an investment and have MISB vehicles, I'd get them graded. That tape is going to come off. Better it come off inside a graded case.

This is ultimately just something I don't like to think about. It's not smart to be dumping so much money into something so potentially fragile. It's probably not smart to be dumping so much money into toys period, though. I think I'm enjoying the hunt enough that the risk is worth the fun.

If all my figures snap and the bubbles fall off tomorrow though, I might slit my wrists...

I've had a handful of MOC figures from very reliable sellers arrive with partially lifted bubbles - the most recent was a full card Super Powers Wonder Woman that ended up with the bottom and right side of the bubble pulling away from the card.

I wasn't all that upset since I didn't pay a whole lot for it, but my search continues. This thread makes me wonder if it's worthwhile to search online, or if I'm going to have to find these things in person and transport them in a climate-controlled environment - i.e. an air-conditioned car.

What I think happened? It was sealed in a plastic bag, surrounded by peanuts. It may have been thrown around or jostled by USPS, but that didn't affect the bubble. No, it had to have happened in the mailbox. We have a communal mailbox for every 20 houses with two package lockers. It ain't shaded.

Considering that when it's 104 outside, it's 115 in my car until the air kicks in,
I'd have to assume the same is true - or worse - of the metal package lockers.

So you have existing moisture inside the plastic bag, heated up to 115 degrees, I think that'd be enough to lift part or all of a bubble.

Now - I KNOW that's not the same as an AFA bubble, just a slightly different scenario.

Whaddya think?
I'm considering just having any MOC items delivered to my office. But then, it might be 115 degrees inside the mail truck, too...:rolleyes:

actually a conclusion me and my collector friends have come to is that the AFA packaging might also cause cards to suffer from what we call the hot house affect,said cards sealed in these containers with even the slightest change in temps of even a few degrees will cause the glue on cards to moisten and then dry and loosen the bubble,humidity is the clue. and i predict that AFA grading might possibly go down the tubes unless they come with a better packageing which is not possible unless once they are graded you place them into a set temperature container that never deviates in temperature and form of light oh also you will not be able to look at them again,but its worth it to keep your cards in mint cond.

AFA addressed this by not sealing the bottom back edge to allow humidity to escape.

You guys are all stressing one the sole reason I will fight every urge to go MOC...


Someday they will cess being MOC and at that point, the money spent for it, basically leaves you with a very expensive loose copy of the figure.

Rather than wait for that to happen, I avoid it by just collecting loose or mint in bag.

Tanner

PS: Same goes for MIB sealed by tape... Sooner or later that tape is going to give...

You guys are all stressing one the sole reason I will fight every urge to go MOC...


Someday they will cess being MOC and at that point, the money spent for it, basically leaves you with a very expensive loose copy of the figure.

Rather than wait for that to happen, I avoid it by just collecting loose or mint in bag.

Tanner

PS: Same goes for MIB sealed by tape... Sooner or later that tape is going to give...

i agree i had recently gotten a few H.I.S.S. III's and i immediately opened them up :eek: for display,:D

Rather than wait for that to happen, I avoid it by just collecting loose or mint in bag.

Same here.
And there was something Orion said that I thought was worth expanding on. . .


This thread makes me wonder if it's worthwhile to search online, or if I'm going to have to find these things in person and transport them in a climate-controlled environment - i.e. an air-conditioned car.

I watched an ep. of Antiques Roadshow this week that featured an antique toy that was truly rare beyond imagination: A Japanese marionette playset that pre-dated WWII and made it to the US. It was dead mint with excellent box. The toy was made of mostly paper and celluloid, yet there was no damage. It averted the firebombings, two A-bombs, and the occupation. Furthermore, it outlasted the depression, rationing, and generations of potentially destructive children. OMG, it was celluloid man!

It was finally assessed at (get this). . .a mere $1500.00! Yep, that's right.

Immediately I thought about AFA and said, "Something's really wrong here."

For the price you're paying for high-grade MOSC AFA Joes (or any AFA Joes for that matter), having them conventionally shipped is like. . .putting $$$ in a shredder.

-PJ

Don't get me wrong, I do have some MOC stuff, but I don't intend on keeping it MOC.

Other the the graded Gung Ho I have that I got from Soft Master as a gift, I do not have any vintage MOC stuff.

The latest I go back MOC is 1997/98 and someday I'll open that stuff up. I just haven't been confronted with a reason to open it yet. Until then, why open something when you can keep it MOC.

But again, I've come to the realization that someday all MOC will no longer be MOC stuff so I'm ok with opening it someday.

Tanner

PS: I lied, I do have a '87 MISB Defiant, well most of its sealed, but again, like I said, that stuff will be opened someday.

my opinion is that AFA gradeing is a joke i've met several dealers and collectors who either do not use it or do not except the gradeing it has,ask yourself what makes them the premier and only source of grading?their advertising campaign that is all,what it comes down to is an item is worth what someone is willing to pay,pure and simple irregardless if its AFA graded or not.