Breaker's Ghost
07-05-2004, 05:44 PM
A topic that seems to come up often here and in other Joe forums is the age of the characters.
Some people choose to believe the Joe comicverse is like the DC and Marvel superhero world were time moves very slowly or not at all. And that real world events like WWII and Vietnam don’t take place and happen in exactly the same way and time as they do in the real world. In sort they think of G.I. Joe taking place in a complete fantasy world that is not bound by real history and the passage of time.
Then there are people (like me) who think of the Joe comicverse as happening in an alternate reality version of the real world with some fictional countries, a global terrorist group called Cobra, and the G.I. Joe team. – But, history and the passage of time is the same as we know it.
People point out (100% correctly IMO) that in the original Marvel series that characters were tied with real world event like Vietnam, years and date were sometimes given, topical events of the 80’s and early 90’s were often touched on (or hinted out) – like the rise of middle eastern terrorism, the cold war, the Soviet war in Afghanistan, Black Ops in South American countries, the war on drugs, and the Gulf war, the break up of the Eastern Europe. All these things clearly put G.I. Joe in a “real world” time and place and uses real dates and historic events in the Joe comicverse timeline.
Also, the passage of time is clearly shown in multiple ways, like:
(1) Billy – when we first see him in the Marvel series he is a young boy, by issues 30-50 he is shown as an young teenagers, and by the end of the series he is a young man in his late teens-early twenties. When he shows up in the DD series he is shown as a hard-bitten man in his very late twenties.
(2) The DD series began clearly stating that seven years had passed since the G.I. Joe team was shut down (just like in real time) and the main characters were all noticeably older. In the early issues the characters older ages was often referred to and used for light comedy. The inclusion of the Greenshirts was also brought in as a way of giving the Joes some young fresh faces.
(3) And I’m sure I could find more examples, but I don’t want this to be too long…..
So, other then things like G.I. Joe: Cartoonverse / Reloaded / Reboot / Elsewhere World / or What If alternate realities, how should the passage of time and the aging of characters be handled?
Here are some idea I’ve come up with:
1) Don’t fight it, allow the characters to age. It’s not like most of these character are THAT old. A lot people in their 40’s, 50. and early 60’s are still able to do what they did in their 20’s and 30’s. People are living longer and more active lives then ever. BUT, that doesn’t mean age should be ignored – having a bunch of senior citizens running around pretending their in their 20’s can look a little ridicules. Part of allowing the characters to age is allowing them to age with grace. Slowly move the classic character to into the higher ranks, make them commanders, department heads, administrators, instructors, advisors and mentor to a the new generation of Joes and Cobras.
2) Put greater effort in devolving the new characters. IMO there hasn’t been any truly great new characters since 87. Sure there have been memorable or “cool” characters, but none IMO that have been the whole package (interesting, compelling, or likable personality, interesting back story, and unique look and abilities). Note how all the main characters and most identifiable icons of the RAH line are all form the early years. There’s no reasons that with some inspired writing and compelling storylines of some new main characters that could be just as beloved as the classic ones. IMO characters like: Kamakura, Dart, Agent Faces, Hacker, Cross Hair, Red Spot, Depth Charge, Wide Scope, Alexander, Lilian, Zanya, Black Out, and Scalpel all have tons of potential to become the Joe “super stars” of tomorrow. Now all this being said I realize and completely agree with the notion that in many ways G.I. Joe IS characters like Duke, Snake-Eyes, Storm Shadow, and all the Cobra regulars. And to do G.I. Joe with out them would be imposable.
3) Bringing me to my next idea/point. I think some realist inventory of the characters needs to be taken. Just how important and necessary are certain characters are to G.I. Joe popularity and survival into the future? IMO the characters in the Joe comicverse fall into four categories.
Category 1: Are characters like - Hawk, Duke, Scarlet, Snake-Eyes, Flint, Lady Jaye, Cobra Commander, Destro, Baroness, Storm Shadow, and Zartan. These are the MAIN characters of the series and it’s biggest icons. The category 1 characters are the core of the G.I. Joe comicverse and with out them it wouldn’t be G.I. Joe.
Category 2: Are characters like - Stalker, Gung-Ho, Roadblock, Wild Bill, Rock & Roll, Mutt and Junkyard, Spirit, Clutch, Ripcord, Jinx, Tunnel Rat, Billy, Dr. Mindbender, Major Blood, Firefly, the Twins, and the Dreadnoughts. These characters are the important supporting players. They all ether got lots of “screen time’, had memorable sub plots devoted to them, or are tied closely with storylines and history of the category 1 characters.
Category 3: Are characters like - Mainframe (RIP), Beach Head, Shipwreck, Ace, Slipstream, Wet Suit, Scrap Iron, Wild Weasel, and 99.9% of the 88-94 Joes and Cobras. Characters in this category for the most part aren’t crucial to the success of the G.I. Joe and the furthering of the storyline. But, SOME of these characters (like the once I listed above) are fan favourites and have useful skills and abilities that can be vital to certain stories – the computer expert, the Doctor, the pilot, the tough as nails instructor, the wise cracking veteran, the Navy SEAL. Characters in this category should only be used (or brought back) if they have some thing a new character can’t offer. Sure Shockwave and Muskrat were cool characters, but they were never that well devolved and aren’t remember by anyone who isn’t a hardcore Joe fan. New characters like Wide Scope and Cross Hair can fill the same role as they did and allow for an injection of new blood into the team. I think it’s a mistake to bring back ALL the 82-94 characters just for nostalgia sake – like what is kind of being done right now.
Category 4: Are characters like – Robo Joe and Cobra-La. Nuff said. Burn in hell never to return.
4) Last idea. So if there are certain characters that are 100% vital to the identity of the G.I. Joe series and can not be (easily) replaces with new characters, how should they’re advancing ages be handled?
Well… Off the top of head I got two ideas – and I’m afraid a lot of y’all may find them lame.
(I) Go the codename / identity baton pass off rout. Like having older characters retire or get killed off and have younger once take their place – Kamakura could become Snake-Eyes II, Alexander & Lilian could become the new Destro and Baroness, Billy could become Cobra Commander. Or maybe (and yes I know this is corny) have the sons or daughters of certain characters join the teams and take over for their parents - who are to say that most of Joes and Cobras don’t have families out there? Or introduce new characters that are similar to older once and have the older characters mentor them and eventually retiring and handing over their codename to the young bucks.
(II) Go the Sci-fi rout. The G.I. Joe comicverse is a world inhabited by androids, space combat, clones, genetically created supermen, and Ninja mysticism – would some kind of cell rejuvenation device or youth serum be that far out? Couldn’t y’all picture crazy old Dr. Mindbender inventing something like this? Or maybe Cobra Commander becomes obsessed with prolonging his life and goes in search of some kind of fountain of youth. And if the Cobras got their hands on something like this wouldn’t it be likely that the Joes would learn the formula and give some of their best / most important personal the rejuvenation treatment?
It’s all in the writing – if done right this could be done with little or no cheese factor.
Anyways, I’ve said my word. I think I’ve come up with some perfectly good ways for G.I. Joe and Cobra can battle it out for as long as we would want to read about them – without age being a major factor.
Thanks your taking the time to read this.
Some people choose to believe the Joe comicverse is like the DC and Marvel superhero world were time moves very slowly or not at all. And that real world events like WWII and Vietnam don’t take place and happen in exactly the same way and time as they do in the real world. In sort they think of G.I. Joe taking place in a complete fantasy world that is not bound by real history and the passage of time.
Then there are people (like me) who think of the Joe comicverse as happening in an alternate reality version of the real world with some fictional countries, a global terrorist group called Cobra, and the G.I. Joe team. – But, history and the passage of time is the same as we know it.
People point out (100% correctly IMO) that in the original Marvel series that characters were tied with real world event like Vietnam, years and date were sometimes given, topical events of the 80’s and early 90’s were often touched on (or hinted out) – like the rise of middle eastern terrorism, the cold war, the Soviet war in Afghanistan, Black Ops in South American countries, the war on drugs, and the Gulf war, the break up of the Eastern Europe. All these things clearly put G.I. Joe in a “real world” time and place and uses real dates and historic events in the Joe comicverse timeline.
Also, the passage of time is clearly shown in multiple ways, like:
(1) Billy – when we first see him in the Marvel series he is a young boy, by issues 30-50 he is shown as an young teenagers, and by the end of the series he is a young man in his late teens-early twenties. When he shows up in the DD series he is shown as a hard-bitten man in his very late twenties.
(2) The DD series began clearly stating that seven years had passed since the G.I. Joe team was shut down (just like in real time) and the main characters were all noticeably older. In the early issues the characters older ages was often referred to and used for light comedy. The inclusion of the Greenshirts was also brought in as a way of giving the Joes some young fresh faces.
(3) And I’m sure I could find more examples, but I don’t want this to be too long…..
So, other then things like G.I. Joe: Cartoonverse / Reloaded / Reboot / Elsewhere World / or What If alternate realities, how should the passage of time and the aging of characters be handled?
Here are some idea I’ve come up with:
1) Don’t fight it, allow the characters to age. It’s not like most of these character are THAT old. A lot people in their 40’s, 50. and early 60’s are still able to do what they did in their 20’s and 30’s. People are living longer and more active lives then ever. BUT, that doesn’t mean age should be ignored – having a bunch of senior citizens running around pretending their in their 20’s can look a little ridicules. Part of allowing the characters to age is allowing them to age with grace. Slowly move the classic character to into the higher ranks, make them commanders, department heads, administrators, instructors, advisors and mentor to a the new generation of Joes and Cobras.
2) Put greater effort in devolving the new characters. IMO there hasn’t been any truly great new characters since 87. Sure there have been memorable or “cool” characters, but none IMO that have been the whole package (interesting, compelling, or likable personality, interesting back story, and unique look and abilities). Note how all the main characters and most identifiable icons of the RAH line are all form the early years. There’s no reasons that with some inspired writing and compelling storylines of some new main characters that could be just as beloved as the classic ones. IMO characters like: Kamakura, Dart, Agent Faces, Hacker, Cross Hair, Red Spot, Depth Charge, Wide Scope, Alexander, Lilian, Zanya, Black Out, and Scalpel all have tons of potential to become the Joe “super stars” of tomorrow. Now all this being said I realize and completely agree with the notion that in many ways G.I. Joe IS characters like Duke, Snake-Eyes, Storm Shadow, and all the Cobra regulars. And to do G.I. Joe with out them would be imposable.
3) Bringing me to my next idea/point. I think some realist inventory of the characters needs to be taken. Just how important and necessary are certain characters are to G.I. Joe popularity and survival into the future? IMO the characters in the Joe comicverse fall into four categories.
Category 1: Are characters like - Hawk, Duke, Scarlet, Snake-Eyes, Flint, Lady Jaye, Cobra Commander, Destro, Baroness, Storm Shadow, and Zartan. These are the MAIN characters of the series and it’s biggest icons. The category 1 characters are the core of the G.I. Joe comicverse and with out them it wouldn’t be G.I. Joe.
Category 2: Are characters like - Stalker, Gung-Ho, Roadblock, Wild Bill, Rock & Roll, Mutt and Junkyard, Spirit, Clutch, Ripcord, Jinx, Tunnel Rat, Billy, Dr. Mindbender, Major Blood, Firefly, the Twins, and the Dreadnoughts. These characters are the important supporting players. They all ether got lots of “screen time’, had memorable sub plots devoted to them, or are tied closely with storylines and history of the category 1 characters.
Category 3: Are characters like - Mainframe (RIP), Beach Head, Shipwreck, Ace, Slipstream, Wet Suit, Scrap Iron, Wild Weasel, and 99.9% of the 88-94 Joes and Cobras. Characters in this category for the most part aren’t crucial to the success of the G.I. Joe and the furthering of the storyline. But, SOME of these characters (like the once I listed above) are fan favourites and have useful skills and abilities that can be vital to certain stories – the computer expert, the Doctor, the pilot, the tough as nails instructor, the wise cracking veteran, the Navy SEAL. Characters in this category should only be used (or brought back) if they have some thing a new character can’t offer. Sure Shockwave and Muskrat were cool characters, but they were never that well devolved and aren’t remember by anyone who isn’t a hardcore Joe fan. New characters like Wide Scope and Cross Hair can fill the same role as they did and allow for an injection of new blood into the team. I think it’s a mistake to bring back ALL the 82-94 characters just for nostalgia sake – like what is kind of being done right now.
Category 4: Are characters like – Robo Joe and Cobra-La. Nuff said. Burn in hell never to return.
4) Last idea. So if there are certain characters that are 100% vital to the identity of the G.I. Joe series and can not be (easily) replaces with new characters, how should they’re advancing ages be handled?
Well… Off the top of head I got two ideas – and I’m afraid a lot of y’all may find them lame.
(I) Go the codename / identity baton pass off rout. Like having older characters retire or get killed off and have younger once take their place – Kamakura could become Snake-Eyes II, Alexander & Lilian could become the new Destro and Baroness, Billy could become Cobra Commander. Or maybe (and yes I know this is corny) have the sons or daughters of certain characters join the teams and take over for their parents - who are to say that most of Joes and Cobras don’t have families out there? Or introduce new characters that are similar to older once and have the older characters mentor them and eventually retiring and handing over their codename to the young bucks.
(II) Go the Sci-fi rout. The G.I. Joe comicverse is a world inhabited by androids, space combat, clones, genetically created supermen, and Ninja mysticism – would some kind of cell rejuvenation device or youth serum be that far out? Couldn’t y’all picture crazy old Dr. Mindbender inventing something like this? Or maybe Cobra Commander becomes obsessed with prolonging his life and goes in search of some kind of fountain of youth. And if the Cobras got their hands on something like this wouldn’t it be likely that the Joes would learn the formula and give some of their best / most important personal the rejuvenation treatment?
It’s all in the writing – if done right this could be done with little or no cheese factor.
Anyways, I’ve said my word. I think I’ve come up with some perfectly good ways for G.I. Joe and Cobra can battle it out for as long as we would want to read about them – without age being a major factor.
Thanks your taking the time to read this.
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