Ever wonder why some people hate AFA so much? Here is part of the reason. When some people see an AFA graded figure they loose their minds and start spending their rent money. I know it is their money and they can do with it as they please but...........
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5900795112

$816 for a figure I will get really soon for $5?

And based on the feedback, he actually paid.

The same seller is selling a brand new AFA 100 Emperor for over $200.

These prices are out of control.

AFA will be the downfall for casual collectors.

No it won't.....

This is no different then the CGC Craze in Comics. The majority of the collecting populace just shakes their heads at idiots like the guy who paid $800 for a figure you can get off the shelves.

In the Comics world people CGC Mint copies of books you can get off the shelf for $3 and all of a sudden its a $300+ Comic Book. It is? No, but the market seems to be saying it is. There is nothing in recent history to indicate any recent comic will have any real value 10 years from now, the majority will be worth cover but people still pay outrageous amounts for high grade books just because someone else said they are perfect.

Its flat out silly.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rapid Fire:
AFA will be the downfall for casual collectors.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is true.

Example is vintage Star Wars. It gets harder and harder every day to find nice carded vintage SW that is not graded. Everyone is sending their stuff off to get graded before selling it - especially 12 backs. This has left a direct impact on vintage values. You know have to pay more than what the figure is actually worth if you want a nice card and all you can find is AFA graded figures.

And this isn't about "player hating." I know some people can spend a lot of money - money I don't have - on high end pieces that I will never have in my collection. I accept that.

I am just complaining because AFA often leads to a break down in common sense.

The crazy thing is they are spending ridiculous amounts on new figures that are high grade.

I can understand paying a lot for a 1982 Snake Eyes thats perfect on Card but $800 for a new Han Solo, thats just stupid.

and soon they will do the same for loose figures as well! i understand there just out to make a buck, but damn, when a figure gets as high as what most AFA figures do, it will get out of hand. im firmly against it and i will never use there service.

heheh,
without reading your post yet, I really don't wonder why people hate AFA!!
haha

ok man- WTF!!!!!!!!!
isn't that fig like only a few years old???
yeah, this is ridiculous.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by thorn:
ok man- WTF!!!!!!!!!
isn't that fig like only a few years old???
yeah, this is ridiculous.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The figure is brand new packaged like this and will actually be out in the next couple of weeks.

I must say i have to agree with dockingbay...People still dont realzie it's a TOY not the holy grail.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dockingbay97:
Ever wonder why some people hate AFA so much? Here is part of the reason. When some people see an AFA graded figure they loose their minds and start spending their rent money. I know it is their money and they can do with it as they please but...........
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5900795112

$816 for a figure I will get really soon for $5?

And based on the feedback, he actually paid.

The same seller is selling a brand new AFA 100 Emperor for over $200.

These prices are out of control.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


JESUS Christ....Tom sure got filthy rich on that deal.........
:eek: :eek:


On a different note, that Han looks AWESOME......no I've gotta keep my eyes peeled for those :D

holycow! $816.00

that's alot of money on my opinion..but if the guy has the cash to pay it..well, it's his money...
but it's very high for me...very...
the afa sign, is the one on the right side? it's like a silver flame? is that the afa sign? wondering...just wondering..

Two words:

Absolutely RIDICULOUS.

I could see if you had something rare and doing that before selling it. That way the buyer knows what they are getting. Like an 82 SE. OR does anyone remember that auction with the Blue Storm Shadow in the bonus pack? I could see doing those, but taking a brand new and getting done is just stupid. And the person buying it even worse. I really don't care how the card looks as long as everything is there.

what a ...............SUCKER!
Cutos to the seller if they can make that kind of money. In my opinion 99.9% of figures or comics from the 90s or up aren't worth more than sticker price because so many were made (look at hockey cards for example). Even ones with slight variations like a blue dot instead of a purple one are no different. Big deal, its still the same figure. That guy could have bought an antique painting instead that would be worth double in 10 years rather than a figure that will still be worth $5 in 40 years. Somebody should email this buyer and ask him why he paid $800 for it!

Its not AFA's fault their graded stuff sells for so much, its the IDIOTS that pay outrageous prices for it...

I think it was PT Barnum who said,
"There's a sucker born every minute."

Amen to that.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Crimson Viper Commander:
Its not AFA's fault their graded stuff sells for so much, its the IDIOTS that pay outrageous prices for it...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It is when AFA is owned by that retailer.

Good for that guy, let him waste his money. Its pretty stupid to spend that much money on a figure like that, but at the same time I have a Ford SHO that I took and put mustang cobra svt engine in, which people thought was really stupid. So everyone has to do their own thing.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>It is when AFA is owned by that retailer <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Unless they're shill bidding, not it's not. There was no reserve, the opening bid was 99 cents, there wasn't even a BIN. The only people at fault are the people who bid such high amounts on the stuff to begin with.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dockingbay97:


It is when AFA is owned by that retailer.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I feel I'm not seeing your point Dock, just because Cloudcity owns AFA has NOTHING to do with people bidding INSANE amounts on graded items...

Now on the other hand, IF your saying that because CC owns AFA, CC's stuff is getting unfair high grades, then I wouldnt trust AFA. But I would hope that everything would be graded fairly, or else I dont see AFA lasting very long...

ok im prolly gonna catch a bit of flak here, but i can see why people ate the AFA and why they like them. i mean i would love to have some of my MOC figures graded JUST to keep here, not to sell. but i can see that alot of ebay sellers are doing the AFA grading because its a sure goldmine. but its a really bad practice seeing as it thins down the available figures that arent graded. honestly i wouldnt ever buy a graded figure when i can buy a ungraded for anywhere from 1/2 to 1/100 the cost. $816 is insane for just one figure. i dont care if it was a one of a kind figure, i still wouldnt spend that much

I don't see why I should hate AFA. They grade a figure, they don't say it's worth that much. If there's a fool out there willing to pay a crazy amount, that's his problem...

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Crimson Viper Commander:


I feel I'm not seeing your point Dock, just because Cloudcity owns AFA has NOTHING to do with people bidding INSANE amounts on graded items...

Now on the other hand, IF your saying that because CC owns AFA, CC's stuff is getting unfair high grades, then I wouldnt trust AFA. But I would hope that everything would be graded fairly, or else I dont see AFA lasting very long...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You said:

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Crimson Viper Commander:
Its not AFA's fault their graded stuff sells for so much, its the IDIOTS that pay outrageous prices for it...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

My point is AFA is at least part to blame.

Cloud City was the first major dealer selling AFA and sells by far a large percentage of their toys graded. I think CC had to do this to set themselves apart from all the other SW dealers - like Brian's Toys. CC has always been able to supply hard to find SW toys but they needed a gimmick to attract a larger consumer base.

Cloud City and other retailers hype AFA and sell large volumes of graded figures giving them the illusion of being worth more than an ungraded figure. It is all about the illusion of extra, perceived value.

AFA grades ToyFare's exclusives so ToyFare can charge more for them. In return ToyFare gives them full page ads and runs an AFA section in their price guide now. Now we have more illusion of extra, perceived value.

Yes, the consumer is to blame for spending the extra money but don't think for a minute AFA/Cloud City are not to blame with the clever marketing plan to get people to send figures to them to be graded for resale. The more AFA figures are perceived to be worth more than ungraded figures, the more figures people will send in to be graded.

And as far as getting better grades. Well it is obvious CC and ToyFare can't get all AFA 100's but I don't believe for a second that when a grader is trying to decide between an 80 or 85 and see that they are grading for one of these two, the grader goes with the 85. I do think they get the benefit of the doubt when they would be more strict to the common person. I also think they get first in line grading meaning they can get their stuff graded first.


I for one like CC. They have always had a great supply of very hard to find SW items. Nice people work there. They try their best to find you stuff. I just wish they would admit common people own both companies through family members and shadow businesses. Don't deny it on message boards and admit it to high end collectors privately. If it was fair and common knowledge, I wouldn't be have as bugged by the AFA shell game.

Just my opinion and I know we all have them.

[ June 02, 2004: Message edited by: dockingbay97 ]

The AFA debate always brings the following quotes to mind...

"The point is, how do you know the Guarantee Fairy isn't a crazy glue sniffer? "Building model airplanes" says the little fairy, but we're not buying it."

and

"Hey, if you want me to take a dump in a box and mark it guaranteed, I will. I got spare time"

Just substitute graded for guaranteed.

To each their own, if someone wants to pay that much, great for the seller! I'll pass though.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jeff Bohn:
The AFA debate always brings the following quotes to mind...

"The point is, how do you know the Guarantee Fairy isn't a crazy glue sniffer? "Building model airplanes" says the little fairy, but we're not buying it."

and

"Hey, if you want me to take a dump in a box and mark it guaranteed, I will. I got spare time"

Just substitute graded for guaranteed.

To each their own, if someone wants to pay that much, great for the seller! I'll pass though.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Amen to that! smile.gif

In my personal opinion. Plastic toys in general are worth very little because you cannot actually DO anything with them (make fire, eat them, etc...). Everyone who buys these figures is buying into "percieved value" in some way. The way I look at it is that I choose to use my expendable income for entertainment and I choose buying/selling/refurbishing/completing/customizing toys as a form of entertainment. At the end of the day not one GI Joe figure in the entire world is worth diddly freaking squat. It's not.
Now I think there may be some valid points about AFA/Toyfare being in bed with each other and claiming to be a "neutral" source when you get a profit from the sales. That is shady and underhanded, but no more than a used car salesman. It's all legal. However, in terms of raising percieved value, what makes your non-graded 82 MOC Snake Eyes worth anything? Why is it worth more than a MOC Grunt?


Percieved Value... nothing more.

I thought Supply and Demand set the value. What makes 1 thing worth more than another. People are willing to pay for what they want.

I just hope AFA doesnt ruin the hobby, like the grading did the sports cards in the late 80's. But that being said, if someone is willing to spend 1600.00 on a figure because some guy said it was a grade 90... like the saying goes, a fool and his money are soon parted. And people spending money on AFA stuff will learn the same thing that people who spent their money on a graded Mark McGwire USA baseball team card did, in 3 years it will decrease by 1/2 of what you paid for it.

I have posted many times that i fully support AFA and the stuff I get from them. But as for this particular auction, yes, i agree, that is insane. And for a 90? If it was 95 or 100, or even 95 with higher subgrades, I cannot see that being worth even half that. But the "U" is kinda cool. I have been thinking about buying sealed new cases of Joes just to get one thing in my collection with an uncirculated grade.

well lookie here, now they are selling them at $35 a pop

That bidder must be dying now
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=2476&item=5902168788

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dockingbay97:
well lookie here, now they are selling them at $35 a pop

That bidder must be dying now
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=2476&item=5902168788<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Perhaps he made back the money he spent on the case and grading on that one Han and now is just being nice :D

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by red25thta:
I thought Supply and Demand set the value. What makes 1 thing worth more than another. People are willing to pay for what they want.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Exactly, couldn't have said it better myself :D

Anyone remember what happened to trading cards when everything was getting graded? That just might happen in toys...

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Steve French:
Anyone remember what happened to trading cards when everything was getting graded? That just might happen in toys...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Steve I have made that point several times and AFA supporters have sworn up and down that grading didnt kill trading cards...

the more pieces that are sent to afa and graded means the prices for those pieces will drop. i've only been following the joe toys, but i've noticed the prices they're selling for are starting to drop. of course it will still cost more to get a piece thats already graded, but as a little time goes by these prices will continue to drop and finally level out.

Ohh. . .I get it!

All I gotta do. . .is weasel a brand new
pre-release uncirculated Joe or SW figure from someone in HK, get it graded, sell it for $800 on ebay, and THEN I could get that fact.-sealed Defiant I always wanted :D

All of a sudden (in the most evil sense of course), I really-really LIKE AFA now. :cool:

OFF TO WORK I GO! Woo-Hoo!

-PJ

I agree - this is like the gimmick/multi cover books and collector market of the 80's and early 90's - the bottom will drop out eventually. Don't get me wrong - I think grading figures is a good idea, but a store or manufacturer being "affiliated" with the grader makes the whole system suspect. At least cgc is independant. As for wizard and toyfare (both of which I read and enjoy), they hyped the hell out of image in the early 90's and turned some crappy books into best sellers and created a false market, driving image comics prices through the roof(those same books are fairly worthless now). The problem however is not the grading company, the hype created by toyfare, it is the stupidity of the buyer(who obviously is buying it as an investment) just as it was the stupidity of the buyer in the 90's who bought tons of valient(who?) comics and or chase utraforce (who?)figures as an investment. The bottom will fall out as people see the folly of it, and as more of these same grade figures become available.

I agree - this is like the gimmick/multi cover books and collector market of the 80's and early 90's - the bottom will drop out eventually. Don't get me wrong - I think grading figures is a good idea, but a store or manufacturer being "affiliated" with the grader makes the whole system suspect. At least cgc is independant. As for wizard and toyfare (both of which I read and enjoy), they hyped the hell out of image in the early 90's and turned some crappy books into best sellers and created a false market, driving image comics prices through the roof(those same books are fairly worthless now). The problem however is not the grading company, the hype created by toyfare, it is the stupidity of the buyer(who obviously is buying it as an investment) just as it was the stupidity of the buyer in the 90's who bought tons of valient(who?) comics and or chase utraforce (who?)figures as an investment. The bottom will fall out as people see the folly of it, and as more of these same grade figures become available.