Why are Snow Serpents going for so much $$$?

[erichpersson]

\r\n \r\n No. It\'s been a long time since I\'ve been in school. It\'s really just something I want to truly understand for my own benefit. I\'m hoping to one day have 200,000 of them and then I\'ll just liquidate them on ebay and move on!\r\n \r\n

[HoodedCobraCommander788]

\r\n \r\n I can\'t get behind that kind of manipulation of the market just for curiosity. Sorry. At least if it were done as a published experiment in economics, it would have some value. If it isn\'t done with scientifically with sufficient controls, it won\'t prove anything of any worthwhile value. I can sympathize with collectors who are finding it difficult to nail down a Snow Serpent at a decent price, and who face an inevitable deflation of that figure when the market is flooded again.\r\n \r\n

[erichpersson]

\r\n \r\n That\'s why I responded to the various people who have questions about this. Hoping people don\'t think of snow serpents as an investment item! What Iearn is for my own benefit, I just don\'t want some person to buy 50 snow serpents hoping they will be worth $100 someday.\r\n \r\n

[erichpersson]

\r\n \r\n Are you brian kossin?, the owner of joesparts?\r\n \r\n

[navy viper]

\r\n \r\n so I\'m going over your numbers,32,331 figures & lets say you spent a average of $15 for each figure- that comes out to a sum of $484965.00 !! so I\'m gonna round it up to a even half million for some action figures !! well obviously not SOME , but the point I\'m making here is why not do something better with that kind of money ? I could give a $h!t less about the fact that they are now so expensive , I have a descent enough collection of them for display purposes & I just won a incomplete one for less then $2( the link is on the previous page) , on eBay !! you just need to know where to look & be patient to find them. & I don\'t have a problem with what you do with your money or to the hobby itself- it just seems a little difficult to comprehend the reasoning I guess ? if I could throw that kind of money away , I would want to have something to show for it. I\'m over 40 & a grandfather, I guess I\'m just thinking differently ? anyway I wish the best to you & I hope what you do makes you happy . I don\'t mean to sound judgmental or anything, its just big numbers to think & talk about for a action figure that isn\'t really worth much in the grand scheme of things ? well just not to me I guess ? OH yeah Thanks for posting, its been a real eye opener to the hobby I think ?\r\n \r\n

[erichpersson]

\r\n \r\n I get how it appears from outside....it\'s not an either or scenario....I\'m a married father of three...I\'ve been blessed, our family lives quite well...I think very few people ever get the opportunity to truly control a market and then consider the implications of their actions and then consider what they can do with what they have learned...I am.in that process right now...and I can tell you it\'s been very interesting...both in the responses I\'ve had here and in the personal emails and enquires I\'ve received...never occurred to me that anyone would be this interested in my actions...all part of the journey!\r\n \r\n

[FireFox91]

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but the point I\'m making here is why not do something better with that kind of money ?

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Given the finances, I personally wouldn\'t do something like this with my money. However I also don\'t agree with others telling me or anyone else what we should do with our money. We are evolving (if you want to call it that) to a society that looks more for someone else to give them what they want rather than working for it. That is because the lines got blurred between those incapable of helping themselves and those that are unwilling to help them selves. But society somehow society is expected to help both. If someone has legitimately and legally worked his way spend a crap ton of cash on Snow Serpents, well it is his money. You guys wanted to know why he was buying them all up, he answered.
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\r\nBut Erich, I will say that I think the negative responses received were probably more for the grain of sand comment more than anything else. It probably could have been left out.\r\n \r\n

[Elvisrocker]

\r\n \r\n I created an account solely to state the following:
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\nOver the course of several months I have sold numerous Snow Serpents to Eric Persson - he has paid immediately and has left feedback to the effect that his valid name is Eric Persson and his mission is to buy Snow Serpents. Like it or not, I have no reason to doubt any of his claims -all information I have on these transactions lines up with what he has stated - location, name, purchasing habits. I\'m rather interested in seeing where this experiment goes. If anyone out there is mad that they might have to pay more for a snow serpent - just buy a lot of figures that has a snow serpent in it and shut up.\r\n \r\n

[Retail-viper]

\r\n \r\n Hi Erich,
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\nCongrats on being so successful with your life that you can indulge yourself like this. I for one applaud you and wish you all the best with your venture.
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\nNow how about a pic of all those snow serpents, dont be a stevie d!\r\n \r\n

[erichpersson]

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Hi Erich,
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\nCongrats on being so successful with your life that you can indulge yourself like this. I for one applaud you and wish you all the best with your venture.
\nNever ever listen to the cry\'s of the poor and wretched who unfortunately make up a large number of the rank and file of Joe fandom, they just want to drag you down to their food stamp level existance.
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\nNow how about a pic of all those snow serpents, dont be a stevie d!

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Who is Stevie D? I promise that once I\'m done and they have been cataloged I will put them all together in a massive snow serpent picture that I will fathead.Com on canvas and put on my wall and post here for everyone to see!\r\n \r\n

[erichpersson]

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Given the finances, I personally wouldn\'t do something like this with my money. However I also don\'t agree with others telling me or anyone else what we should do with our money. We are evolving (if you want to call it that) to a society that looks more for someone else to give them what they want rather than working for it. That is because the lines got blurred between those incapable of helping themselves and those that are unwilling to help them selves. But society somehow society is expected to help both. If someone has legitimately and legally worked his way spend a crap ton of cash on Snow Serpents, well it is his money. You guys wanted to know why he was buying them all up, he answered.
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\nBut Erich, I will say that I think the negative responses received were probably more for the grain of sand comment more than anything else. It probably could have been left out.

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\nI understand the feedback....I\'ve been getting enquires from people who wonder what my motivations are and more importantly wonder if snow serpents are a good investment....I\'ve become worried that some people are buying these guys hoping they will make money....I made that comment because I wanted people to understand that this endeavor shouldn\'t be considered an investment, it\'s more something I am interested in....I don\'t want people who can\'t afford it to get hurt when I sell them off...didn\'t mean to offend anyone...just don\'t want people mislead...sorry for the harshness of the comment\r\n \r\n

[Xenos]

\r\n \r\n This is pretty interesting Erich. I have a couple of questions though.
\n1) What made you choose the Snow Serpent? Was he your personal favorite? Was it just random?
\n2) Would you be willing to share a picture? I\'d love to see what that many figures looks like in one spot.
\n3) Do you plan on sharing your findings, if any? I\'m always interested in markets, so I\'d be curious to see what conclusions you come up with.
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\nThanks.\r\n \r\n

[erichpersson]

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This is pretty interesting Erich. I have a couple of questions though.
\n1) What made you choose the Snow Serpent? Was he your personal favorite? Was it just random?
\n2) Would you be willing to share a picture? I\'d love to see what that many figures looks like in one spot.
\n3) Do you plan on sharing your findings, if any? I\'m always interested in markets, so I\'d be curious to see what conclusions you come up with.
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\nThanks.

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1. I chose the snow serpent because 1985 was the largest production run in GI Joe...there are roughly 800,000 made. This would have been an easier experiment with an 82 Stalker, because there were less made and less parts. The 85 snow serpent was and is my favorite figure from ThE 85 collection....it also has nine pieces counting the file card...so I figured there would be less total completes out there.
\n2. I box them as I get them and place them in individual bubbles for inventory purposes...I promise when this is all done and categorized I will put them all together and take some pictures...maybe I\'ll get in guiness world records...who knows...then when I\'m done I\'ll sell them all on ebay in a massive liquidation purge and start the next adventure....I\'ll keep a few hundred for sure so my son can play with them...I hope he likes gi joe as much as i did
\n3. Sure when this is all complete and I\'ve drawn conclusions I will post the results here and I\'d be interested in everyone\'s feedback...even thatcranky inner city "academic"!!!\r\n \r\n

[nickvree]

\r\n \r\n Bravo good sir. Bravo.\r\n \r\n

[Johnny Stabbo]

\r\n \r\n Good lord... This topic douched up quite a bit since I was here last.\r\n \r\n

[StkhlmDK]

\r\n \r\n Hi Erich, I am not sure I really follow your motivation behind this but as any other collector I am curious to see them all lined up once you get the time for it
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\nOh, and when you start to sell out I could use 22 figures to complete my humble army-building (trying to get 20-30 of each "vintage" Cobra trooper character) \r\n \r\n

[darthdrew13]

\r\n \r\n Eric,
\n Dude, you are nuts! But I know a couple other folks who are nuts as well so that isn\'t an insult, more of props to you for going after something so hard core. One of the questions I have is, since the sample size is sooooo HUGE, are you seeing variants in the figures received? Errors? Percentage of them that yellowed over time? This is the kind of data that some folks may not think about but would really be beneficial to collectors as far as understanding running changes, errors in the run, paint applications as a run goes on. etc.
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\nFor me, I have 1 measly complete Snow Serpent and a few extra accessories. I\'m going to hold on to him for the moment because I just completed him at JoeCon (Thanks berean3906!).
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\nHow long do you think you will be able to keep this process up? Is there a WAG on when you think the project will be complete enough to declare it is finished?
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\nArgumentative comments aside, this is a cool thread and interesting even to discuss.\r\n \r\n

[erichpersson]

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Eric,
\r\n Dude, you are nuts! But I know a couple other folks who are nuts as well so that isn\'t an insult, more of props to you for going after something so hard core. One of the questions I have is, since the sample size is sooooo HUGE, are you seeing variants in the figures received? Errors? Percentage of them that yellowed over time? This is the kind of data that some folks may not think about but would really be beneficial to collectors as far as understanding running changes, errors in the run, paint applications as a run goes on. etc.
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\r\nFor me, I have 1 measly complete Snow Serpent and a few extra accessories. I\'m going to hold on to him for the moment because I just completed him at JoeCon (Thanks berean3906!).
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\r\nHow long do you think you will be able to keep this process up? Is there a WAG on when you think the project will be complete enough to declare it is finished?
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\r\nArgumentative comments aside, this is a cool thread and interesting even to discuss.

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I am going to continue to buy until they are no longer actively traded. I have no idea how long....it\'s been 2 and a half years and counting with no end in sight, though the price has hit a plateau...and is actually slightly declining...I hope to buy over 400,000 when this is all said and done but who knows!
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\r\nI just want to say thanks to the many people who have contacted me, I am always buying...and I had no idea people would show this much interest...
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\r\nIt\'s run the gamut from people mailing me free snow serpent stuff to people hoping I\'ll pay a premium for theirs (I wont).
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\r\nThe figures are in all kinds of conditions as are the file cards (some really bad cuts) and accessories (belts get broke) gun tips have broken as well. There is discoloration and mutilting of some...loose joints and broken o rings are common....I\'m logging each one before it goes in its bubble....
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\r\nMost common wear is black on nose...\r\n \r\n

[curch]

\r\n \r\n Erich,
\n How do you know the production number? Or is that just an estimate? Someone purchased 20 or 30 snow serpents off of me a year or two ago. I wonder if it was you?
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\nAnd its your money, spend it on what you want! You worked for it. Although, personally, I would have picked a different figure.
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\nFun!!!\r\n \r\n

[Katana]

\r\n \r\n Maybe he just Reeeaaallly loves Snow Serpents.
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\n(Edit - Okay, I just read the previous posts, and realize that my comment makes no sense in this context).\r\n \r\n

[Katana]

\r\n \r\n It\'s a slippery slope when you start to tell people how they should be spending their money. You could pick the "ethical" fight with everything from designer clothes, to jewelry, to luxury cars, to even daily spendings that are not essential but add up over time. Spending a lot of money on action figures is an easy target for the ethical fight, because many people are predisposed to believing that adults buying action figures are a waste of money, because they can\'t see the inherent value in it, and find it absurd, especially when it crosses their personal limit of excess.
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\nInstead of buying that BMW, someone could by the Honda, and donate the rest to charity. Instead of the Nikes, someone could by cheap target shoes. Instead of the diamond engagement ring, someone could by a dollar store ring etc… There are a lot of ways people spend money on non-essentials in daily life, and the money that pays for those things could go towards charity. If you\'re going to tell someone it\'s unethical to spend a lot of money on Snow Serpents, you should cut out all the nonessential spending you personally do, and donate it all the charity, and that includes things like going to the movies, buying wine, eating out at nice eateries, buying brand name items etc…
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\nFor all we know, this guy could save all his money in other areas of his life, and only be spending it on Snow Serpents. The only thing I find problematic about it is that all this buying leaves less inventory for fans who don\'t have a tone of money, who truly want to get their hands on a Snow Serpent. But that could be said for a mint complete Storm Shadow, or some other expensive figure.
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\n(edit - again, just read the rest of this topic and realize that some of my post does not make sense)\r\n \r\n

[3DJoes]

\r\n \r\n I\'m just glad I bought my 20 snow serpents before the shenanigans began.
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\nAnd no, they are not for sale.\r\n \r\n

[Katana]

\r\n \r\n Now that I\'ve caught up on the topic, and have read all the posts (something I should have done before I started blindly posting) I think it would be good to publish some kind of findings. I do feel sorry for either people that were hoping to get a Snow Serpent for a decent price, or people who don\'t have much money paying high prices because they think the Snow Serpents are going to be the next money makers.
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\nAiredevon has a huge collection of Joes, and I\'d imagine that she has a tone of Snow Serpents. Her huge collection was for the purposes of documenting the entire vintage Joe line, and producing a 7 volume book series. I\'m not sure what handed to that project, but I hope it sees the light of day sometime. But my point in bringing Airedevon up is, it\'s nice when collectors that have the fortune of collecting such huge amounts of figures do something with it that somehow benefits more than themselves.
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\nI have 1 snow serpent that\'s complete. I bought him for the sole purpose of my enjoyment, without the thought of re-saling in mind. I\'m glad I did so before these figures were costing $35 - $40 each.\r\n \r\n

[Flophouse]

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Airedevon has a huge collection of Joes, and I\'d imagine that she has a tone of Snow Serpents. Her huge collection was for the purposes of documenting the entire vintage Joe line, and producing a 7 volume book series. I\'m not sure what handed to that project, but I hope it sees the light of day sometime.

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Sadly "has" is now in the past tense, "had". It seems she sold most of the GIJOE collection. There will be NO books, that dream is dead for all of us waiting on them. It really sucks because I was offered a full set of the books for free, for my spending a good chunk of money to travel to her house to film her collection a few years back.\r\n \r\n

[3DJoes]

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[3DJoes]

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Sadly "has" is now in the past tense, "had". It seems she sold most of the GIJOE collection. There will be NO books, that dream is dead for all of us waiting on them. It really sucks because I was offered a full set of the books for free, for my spending a good chunk of money to travel to her house to film her collection a few years back.

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Man, that is terrible news. She didn\'t adequately photograph everything before selling?\r\n \r\n

[Katana]

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Sadly "has" is now in the past tense, "had". It seems she sold most of the GIJOE collection. There will be NO books, that dream is dead for all of us waiting on them. It really sucks because I was offered a full set of the books for free, for my spending a good chunk of money to travel to her house to film her collection a few years back.

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That\'s really too bad. I\'m really surprised that she didn\'t complete the project considering the amount of time, resources and money she must have put into to acquire all of her stuff. Any idea on why she decided to pull the plug? Your film was really great, btw, and it seemed like Aire had gotten to a point where she was all consumed but the collection to a really unhealthy degree that was affecting her, but I don\'t want to jump to conclusions about why she decided to stop the production.\r\n \r\n

[3DJoes]

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That\'s really too bad. I\'m really surprised that she didn\'t complete the project considering the amount of time, resources and money she must have put into to acquire all of her stuff. Any idea on why she decided to pull the plug? Your film was really great, btw, and it seemed like Aire had gotten to a point where she was all consumed but the collection to a really unhealthy degree that was affecting her, but I don\'t want to jump to conclusions about why she decided to stop the production.

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It is unfortunate if she didn\'t get a chance to document everything professionally before parting it out.
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\nI believe she decided to let the collection go out of financial necessity due to health issues (either hers or another family member).
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\nI wish her the best. She\'s an interesting figure in the Joe community!\r\n \r\n

[Katana]

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It is unfortunate if she didn\'t get a chance to document everything professionally before parting it out.
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\nI believe she decided to let the collection go out of financial necessity due to health issues (either hers or another family member).
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\nI wish her the best. She\'s an interesting figure in the Joe community!

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I see, thanks. In that case, I hope her or her family member well. I have a feeling that even her "downsized" collection will probably still be jaw dropping. She is certainly a unique person. I can\'t think of any middle-aged women that took up collecting their kids toys, let alone toys like Joes.\r\n \r\n

[darthdrew13]

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Please re-read the part of my last response that reads: "They are only ACTON FIGURES!!!" We shouldn\'t care THAT much about Snow Serpents. His money to do with as he pleases, yes, but if you could choose to spend extra cash on ALS or 30,000 action figures, what would you do? Legal versus ethical.....that\'s why the human race is in such a sorry state. How would you feel if you saw someone in Canada literally setting fire to hundreds of thousands of American dollars (as it would be illegal for someone to do that in America, and vice versa)? Even if they have the right, wouldn\'t it be a terrible waste?

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The only thing I want to add here is, while, yes, they are only action figures, there is a history of "play things in society" being documented here. History is cool. Regardless of what it is.
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Airedevon has a huge collection of Joes, and I\'d imagine that she has a tone of Snow Serpents. Her huge collection was for the purposes of documenting the entire vintage Joe line, and producing a 7 volume book series. I\'m not sure what handed to that project, but I hope it sees the light of day sometime. But my point in bringing Airedevon up is, it\'s nice when collectors that have the fortune of collecting such huge amounts of figures do something with it that somehow benefits more than themselves.

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As was previously stated, the entire 3.75" collection (minus what belongs to her sons) is gone.
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Man, that is terrible news. She didn\'t adequately photograph everything before selling?

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Nope. She only took pictures of the big vehicles and documented their parts. She did actually log everything she found (what existed in each country, major variants, etc). I took over 2000 pictures of stuff before it was all sold off. It\'s a pittance compared to what the collection entailed, but at least it\'s something.
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It is unfortunate if she didn\'t get a chance to document everything professionally before parting it out.
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\nI wish her the best. She\'s an interesting figure in the Joe community!

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No, the main reason for selling was she was getting older and can\'t get around her house like she once did (it\'s kind of a 3-story house) and that she was finally burned out on Joes. She is very happy to have her house and her life back. I am working with her to get all of her data (spreadsheets, logs of interviews, etc). I think she wants to scrub it to remove personal communications and such before sharing it.
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\nWe may not get the 7-volume set of books, but at least a lot of the research is still available to learn from.\r\n \r\n

[Bigbot]

\r\n \r\n Whole lot of sour grapes toward a successful dude setting out on a fascinating personal experiment that isn\'t hurting anyone. Personally I\'m fascinated by folks who pass righteous judgment on others, while believing they are doing all this "good" in the world.\r\n \r\n

[scrapiron]

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Whole lot of sour grapes toward a successful dude setting out on a fascinating personal experiment that isn\'t hurting anyone. Personally I\'m fascinated by folks who pass righteous judgment on others, while believing they are doing all this "good" in the world.

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Self-righteous judgement? On a guy who initially insulted the common folk with the comment that the amount he is spending is just "a few grains of sand on the beach"? The more we encourage greedy behaviour like this, the more of it occurs. Maybe this discussion will help him take stock of his wasteful behaviour....self-RIGHTEOUS judgement intended, as I have the RIGHT to do so, just as he has the RIGHT to blow cash. Am I doing good in the world? Hopefully,......by not laying down and letting someone with a lousy attitude and a lot of cash insult everyone here....Oh, yeah, that would include you. Is HE doing any good? For himself, sure.
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\nSour grapes? Nah. I applaud him for working hard and being successful, but with great power comes great RESPONSIBILITY. I\'ll criticize him on that all day long, and you, too.\r\n \r\n

[Bigbot]

\r\n \r\n Thank you for defending us against him, Uncle Ben! Your cause is just, and your jealous tirade is...uh... is weak and confusing (?). I\'ve got nothing else except that when I save enough money I am going to blow it on a fully drivable Michael Keaton Batmobile. Criticize that...\r\n \r\n

[scrapiron]

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Thank you for defending us against him, Uncle Ben! Your cause is just, and your jealous tirade is...uh... is weak and confusing (?). I\'ve got nothing else except that when I save enough money I am going to blow it on a fully drivable Michael Keaton Batmobile. Criticize that...

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Jealous? Really, no........If you\'ve been reading, I\'ve said DISAPPOINTING......Weak and confusing?..........that\'s really the response I\'d expect from any of those endorsing this dude\'s behaviour and attitude; ya just don\'t get it and likely never will, friend. And speaking of weak, if all you\'ve got is a trite and insincere, yet charmingly hyperboleic, threat to spend a lot of money thinking it\'ll make me mad, you should probably go back to the Batcave. I\'m not some raging guy shaking a fist in the sky, man, unlike your friend and his posse. Engaging in a healthy debate doesn\'t equate to whiny and angry and jealous. In fact, that sounds a lot like what a seven-year-old would say! I hope you enjoy the Batmobile, as it will likely increase in value. Personally, though, I like the Batman Begins-mobile. \r\n \r\n

[Kronz]

\r\n \r\n Nice.
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\nHopefully I\'ll be around when the market for Snow Serpents loosens up. At least we can all rest assured they\'re in good hands until that time.\r\n \r\n

[3DJoes]

\r\n \r\n ^good stuff Drew. Let me know if I can help.
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[FireFox91]

\r\n \r\n I\'m not at all surprised the books didn\'t happen. I got the privilege of seeing her collection in person during the 2008 convention. She really spoke with a passion for the hobby during the tour. But honestly, she probably had too much passion in the form of obsession. I never saw the books getting completed because she was never going to complete the collection. There was always some rare and obscure item that had to be procured because of the desire to make it complete. I wish she had drawn a line somewhere and said no more. I think she tried to do that, but it didn\'t succeed. Having let it go she is probably far happier in life because she doesn\'t have the metal chains holding her down. It can sound silly, but this happens and it is hard to break. But the good news is that you are going to see more of those rare and obscure things for sale if you want to take a shot at them yourself.\r\n \r\n

[Plastica]

\r\n \r\n I bought the 2 and 3pks from the 2010 Convention from her since they were priced at just the right amount to get my attention. Oh and ERich while I have a few Snowies myself I plan to hold onto them since I\'m kinda partial to the Eels Branch.\r\n \r\n

[code_name_flint]

\r\n \r\n I think this is very interesting and I\'m curious to see the results.
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\nHowever I think you just contaminated your experiment. You told everyone what your doing and how much your currently willing to pay for them. My first reaction when I heard you were doing this was to go to ebay and bid you up. Not like the others you have said before because I would pay for them if I ended up winning. I don\'t have the money to throw around as much as you do but if I wanted to I could throw a small wrench into your plans.
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\nNow that I\'ve read your full story I\'m not going to do it because my curiosity has taken over. Maybe just a few at 31 and 36 for my own amusement.
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\nWith all that being said even though I understand it now and am curious that\'s not to say one of the other collectors won\'t take the course of action I initially wanted to. There are plenty of collectors that have the capital you do and could throw a huge wrench in your plan. That would completely ruin your experiment. Have you thought about that at all when you decided to come public about all this?\r\n \r\n

[HoodedCobraCommander788]

\r\n \r\n You have hit on my objection. The experiment isn\'t property controlled. Maybe it will prove something and maybe it won\'t. That\'s the purpose of publishing the results and the methodology in a peer-reviewed journal-' + '- everyone can see if it was done properly and the results aren\'t contaminated by bias, improper sampling, or any number of other endogenous errors that could make any results worthless. In the meantime, collectors who would like this piece to fill a hole in their collections must wait until the manipulation is over. And those who aren\'t privy to the experiment and dare to pay the prevailing prices will see the value of their investment drop to pennies in a few months. That\'s a massive amount of power for one person to have, without any likely payoff at the end.
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I think this is very interesting and I\'m curious to see the results.
\n
\nHowever I think you just contaminated your experiment. You told everyone what your doing and how much your currently willing to pay for them. My first reaction when I heard you were doing this was to go to ebay and bid you up. Not like the others you have said before because I would pay for them if I ended up winning. I don\'t have the money to throw around as much as you do but if I wanted to I could throw a small wrench into your plans.
\n
\nNow that I\'ve read your full story I\'m not going to do it because my curiosity has taken over. Maybe just a few at 31 and 36 for my own amusement.
\n
\nWith all that being said even though I understand it now and am curious that\'s not to say one of the other collectors won\'t take the course of action I initially wanted to. There are plenty of collectors that have the capital you do and could throw a huge wrench in your plan. That would completely ruin your experiment. Have you thought about that at all when you decided to come public about all this?

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[erichpersson]

Hi Erich,

Congrats on being so successful with your life that you can indulge yourself like this. I for one applaud you and wish you all the best with your venture.
Never ever listen to the cry's of the poor and wretched who unfortunately make up a large number of the rank and file of Joe fandom, they just want to drag you down to their food stamp level existance.

Now how about a pic of all those snow serpents, dont be a stevie d!

Who is Stevie D? I promise that once I'm done and they have been cataloged I will put them all together in a massive snow serpent picture that I will fathead.Com on canvas and put on my wall and post here for everyone to see!