AFA GRADED GI JOE Discussions - Page 8

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  1. #71
    I was complaining about them labeling series 1-3 figures as 'peach filecard' in another thread on these boards. I agree that's pretty boneheaded.

    Also, they label series 7 figures as '34 back', even though both versions of series 7 cardbacks have 34 characters on back. That irritates me too. They seem to still be learning with the label content.

    But where they most fall short is in their lack of a web-searchable graded census. That I still can't go onto their site and find out the grading distribution of a given figure is obscene. They really need to quit promising that feature and deliver.

    Overall though, I still like AFA's service much more than I dislike it. They've been very friendly and accomodating. I think the cases are attractive. It's my money, and I'll get my stuff graded if I want to. And I do.

    And I find the 'excessive price multiples' commanded by graded figures are more often being relegated to the top tier grades as the novelty of grading wears off. When CGC first came out, everything traded at stupid multiples. Now 9.0s and even 9.4s sell for guide. Some don't even recoup grading costs. Similarly, it's getting to the point now that AFA80s are selling at the price of their ungraded equivalents. In a couple year's time it may be only high-subbed 85s and 90s that command big premiums. And I don't see what's wrong with that. Abnormally high quality pieces, be they toys or comics or coins or stamps, graded or ungraded, should garner big premiums cause there's an elite group of collectors in every market willing to pay for the prestige of owning the very best example.

    With or without grading, big walleted collectors (guts) have always payed enormously for superhighgrade pieces. All grading has done is relinguish the seller of the need for superlative credibility, enable the transactions to occur in a more public forum, and for pieces to be exchanged site unseen. Top tier items always smash through the roof of 'accepted market values.' It just used to happen quietly at conventions and through private transactions.

    I will admit, however, that grading has created a nigh-retarded subset of buyers who will pay outrageous multiples (100x+) to get gem mint copies of readily available, inconsequentially valuable ($2-$10) items. Clearly these people are buying into the cult of grading and not the pieces themselves. But I don't think you can blame grading services for these transactions. Nobody's forcing the buyers. They'll learn their lesson in 10 years when they find out that a CGC10 Spawn 1 isn't worth the $1000 they paid for it. But those people are like the people who jumped in on the NASDAQ when it was at 5000. They deserve to lose their money.

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  3. #72
    After rereading my post, I'm mad at myself for not taking a more forceful opinion.

    Grading services, be they NGC, CGC, PSA, AFA, PSE, or whatever, are great.

    Ten years ago, you had to go to a convention or show or gallery to get something you wanted and be sure of what you were getting. And your capacity to shop was limited to what you could find at these locations.

    Then eBay and the internet comes along, and the choice/ready-availability of items expands a hundredfold. But except for with a few established names, sellers' authority and descriptions of items are largely unreliable.

    Then grading comes along, and everyone is empowered. Buyers can reliably buy from anyone. And likewise, anyone can trade or sell and receive fair prices for their collections.

    Speculators and uneducated profit-seekers are what's dangerous to hobbies. They're what sent comics and cards through the wringer. Grading (and specificly grading + the internet), in the long run, I think will strengthen collecting. It brings many more people to the table by allowing experts and novices to communicate both ways with confidence.

  4. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by bigjohnwoo
    After rereading my post, I'm mad at myself for not taking a more forceful opinion.

    Grading services, be they NGC, CGC, PSA, AFA, PSE, or whatever, are great.

    Ten years ago, you had to go to a convention or show or gallery to get something you wanted and be sure of what you were getting. And your capacity to shop was limited to what you could find at these locations.

    Then eBay and the internet comes along, and the choice/ready-availability of items expands a hundredfold. But except for with a few established names, sellers' authority and descriptions of items are largely unreliable.

    Then grading comes along, and everyone is empowered. Buyers can reliably buy from anyone. And likewise, anyone can trade or sell and receive fair prices for their collections.

    Speculators and uneducated profit-seekers are what's dangerous to hobbies. They're what sent comics and cards through the wringer. Grading (and specificly grading + the internet), in the long run, I think will strengthen collecting. It brings many more people to the table by allowing experts and novices to communicate both ways with confidence.
    Word, player! Now everyone go bid on my CGCs that are up right now.
    Specializing in the illest shiznata for more than 5 years:
    http://stores.ebay.com/Guts-the-Bers...3aFQ3aSTQQtZkm

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  6. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by toy-nutz
    I mean it wont be around for more then 10 years or so. I really believe they wont be around. The reason I think this is as I saw on Antiques Roadshow the other day they were showing how hard the Baseball card market has crashed along with coins, comic, and stamps. And eventhough CGC, which is what I meant before as to me CGC and AFA are the same thing, B.I.D., is trying to help the card market it is only helping the market a little. And I have to say the same thing will happen to toys real soon. In about 20 years an AFA graded figure will not help it keep its value.
    Michael Richards
    Bulletman Big B
    All Hail DOB!!

    i agree completely....in the near future, the toy market will vanish. sure army builders garnish a premium now but in 15 years most of us will be 30-50 years old with different priorites and a different outlook on life. Some people will keep there collections, but most will not be collecting so prices will start dropping and then it will be a free for all when stores start trying to dump there merchandise to cover there loses.


    i do agree some people will pay a premium for a servise like afa, but these people alone will not keep the prices of toys up where they are now. i dont know if they will be around or not, it depends on future generations of toy collectors. if children with power rangers and pokemon start collection toys when they get older, then afa could have a new source of collectors. but look at the toy market in general and you will see video games and computer games are taking over the toy market. maybe if afa wants to have a chance in the future, they should change there core competencies to market around video games. my outlook is 20 years from now we will be afa who??(unless they do something with video games)
    Last edited by drveovru2; 05-31-2005 at 06:09 PM.

  7. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by drveovru2
    i agree completely....in the near future, the toy market will vanish. sure army builders garnish a premium now but in 15 years most of us will be 30-50 years old with different priorites and a different outlook on life. Some people will keep there collections, but most will not be collecting so prices will start dropping and then it will be a free for all when stores start trying to dump there merchandise to cover there loses.


    i do agree some people will pay a premium for a servise like afa, but these people alone will not keep the prices of toys up where they are now. i dont know if they will be around or not, it depends on future generations of toy collectors. if children with power rangers and pokemon start collection toys when they get older, then afa could have a new source of collectors. but look at the toy market in general and you will see video games and computer games are taking over the toy market. maybe if afa wants to have a chance in the future, they should change there core competencies to market around video games. my outlook is 20 years from now we will be afa who??(unless they do something with video games)
    I had an idea about a year ago to start up a video game grading company. I have been in the video game industry for over 15 years and have seen the gaming market evolve into a collectible market as well. Just check EBAY and look at what some "sealed" video games sell for. They are not going for these high prices because someone wants to open them and play them. I strongly believe there is a market for authenicating sealed video games. It is very hard to display a sealed game similar to trying to display a MOC figure so a nice displayable acrylic case like AFA would do the job. I have gone to various videogame forums asking about the idea and some think it is stupid and others think it is a great idea. Does anyone have any money they want to invest?
    www.joeparts.com
    check out the largest selection of vintage Joes available on the web

    (figures, accessories, filecards, , AFA, trading cards and more)
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    Free shipping, International customers welcome
    Pay via paypal, credit cards, check or money order !

  8. #76
    Man, I'd love to have a graded NES Super Dodge Ball -- that game was awesome.
    Specializing in the illest shiznata for more than 5 years:
    http://stores.ebay.com/Guts-the-Bers...3aFQ3aSTQQtZkm

  9. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by bigjohnwoo
    Speculators and uneducated profit-seekers are what's dangerous to hobbies. They're what sent comics and cards through the wringer. Grading (and specificly grading + the internet), in the long run, I think will strengthen collecting. It brings many more people to the table by allowing experts and novices to communicate both ways with confidence.
    Well the thing we need to really strenghten collecting is to get more or new/ younger people involved. I again have to say look at the toy train market, it is dying out as there are less and less people involved in it, it is shrinking as it was trying to cater to highend collectors only. This is also why I do hope Sigma 6 takes off, it will bring in new kids and their parents who will remember their Joe's and go "hey I loved Joe I would love to get some back" and they do and get their kids hooked too. That more then a grading company is what will strengthen the market!

    Michael Richards
    Bulletman Big B
    All HAIL DOB!!!
    ALL HAIL DOB!!
    http://www.joelanta.com/dob.html

  10. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by toy-nutz
    Well the thing we need to really strenghten collecting is to get more or new/ younger people involved. I again have to say look at the toy train market, it is dying out as there are less and less people involved in it, it is shrinking as it was trying to cater to highend collectors only. This is also why I do hope Sigma 6 takes off, it will bring in new kids and their parents who will remember their Joe's and go "hey I loved Joe I would love to get some back" and they do and get their kids hooked too. That more then a grading company is what will strengthen the market!

    Michael Richards
    Bulletman Big B
    All HAIL DOB!!!
    That goes back to the video game point above. Toys are a shrinking market with kids these days. (I tend to think it's dying with kids that are at the age now when we got into things like Transformers and G.I. Joe but I can't say that with any certainty.) Computers and video games are what kids are into at younger and younger ages. When I was in grade school we learned the basics of computers and how they worked on a handful of old donated computers. That was nearly 20 years ago... just imagine what kids today are learning. Computers and video games are where it's at with kids "growing up" so much faster now than when we were kids. I don't think the toy industry will be a fraction of what it is today 10 years from now.

  11. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Snake
    That goes back to the video game point above. Toys are a shrinking market with kids these days. (I tend to think it's dying with kids that are at the age now when we got into things like Transformers and G.I. Joe but I can't say that with any certainty.) Computers and video games are what kids are into at younger and younger ages. When I was in grade school we learned the basics of computers and how they worked on a handful of old donated computers. That was nearly 20 years ago... just imagine what kids today are learning. Computers and video games are where it's at with kids "growing up" so much faster now than when we were kids. I don't think the toy industry will be a fraction of what it is today 10 years from now.
    I agree. I started buying Joes when they first came out and I was 12. Toys were still cool to me. Of course, about the same time, the Atari and Intellivision (and the Odyssey) were just coming out. Now, I rarely see kids shopping for toys, but look in the video game section and "WOW"! Those sections are packed with kids. Kids stop playing with toys at a younger and younger age due to video games and computers. The toy market is shrinking and will continue to do so.

  12. #80
    has anyone sent loose figures in to be graded yet? i was curious how they encase the figures (or if the do at all) i have a few loose figures that i think would be grade worthy but havent seen what they do with them yet to decide if its worth it

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