Illegally produced G.I.Joe accessories

[zombieguide]

I really think that the car market may be the best analogy, so let's see if I can explain this using a car that everyone is familiar with, the 71 Cuda that was seen in the TV show Nash Bridges.

The body style of the Cuda was built from 1970 - 1974 I believe, but the 71 version was the only one that had the slots in the fender, so if we go with 10,000 cars built per year, then there are 40,000 cars that share the similar body style, but only 10,000 with that fender pattern. Then if you go for one of the higher end engines, either the 426 Hemi or the 440, then your numbers do down a lot. Then if you find out that there are only 50 cars or so that have that engine size, as well as being a convertible, you have 50 cars out of 40,000 that can go for approximately $100K.

So, let's say that you have one of these 50 cars, and somehow parts of your car get damaged, or say you find one stripped that you want to restore, are you going to refuse to use these parts? Almost every single collector is going to say no, on the simple reason that they are attempting to complete their prized part of their collection. Are these cars sold with these repro parts? Yes. Are they always identified as such? Not always. Do a lot of the owners usually care? Many of them are just happy to have the car they wanted. How about any metal patches that may have been installed to replace damage? Does that metal patch make the car less valuable, even though it is not an original piece of metal?

While the analogy is not exact, just because of the amount of product made between action figues and cars, the situations are similar. Who's to say in 15-20 years, collectors are going to realize that as long as the figure has what it should have per yojoe, Mark Bellomo's book, or any other piece of reference material, that it will be considered complete?

I can state from experience that if not for repro parts, i wouldnt be driving my 1981 delorean today. there were 6000 made, and only 600 of those were automatics. i have an automatic. (see pics here www.myspace.com/johnarmijo. THANK GOD FOR REPRO PARTS.

im not sure how many heavy metal mikes are left in the world, but there arent many. i was happy as heck the day i popped 2 repros...1 into heavy metal, the other into rampage. for the first and probably only time ive ever SEEN this figure with the mic in his helmet. and ive been collecting 25 years.

[Dreadnok4life]

I understand both sides. Personally I don't see anything wrong with Reproduced parts as long as everyone is honest about what they are.

[bluebikerboy1]

heres my take. i to am ok with a repo part if its a completely diffrent color or shape. or custom parts. im a fan of mauders inc weapons. however its sad when im looking at an auction on ebay for a heavy metal and have to email a reputable member who owns one to verify its real so i can try and win it (it got to high for my taste on this particular auction). i cant even bid now without worrying i am getting ripped off.
btw on this note if big fan reads this thank you again for helping me on that.
that guy is a stand up guy and a great resource for all who dont know.

[stad]

Well, what a discussion. It's amazing how some "purists" want to push their opinions on others. It's exactly what one poster said earlier, different strokes for different folks. Just don't call me lazy in the next sentence!

Not really sure where I fall into in this whole debate though. I do have some repro things I bought years ago from J&R to do some (as yet undone) custom work, especially removeable helmet figures. Does this somehow make me a bad person or collector? Well, I really don't care about your opinion, I got them for my own specific purposes.

For my own personal collection, I don't have any repro pieces whatsoever. Nor will I add any. For my own personal army-building/displaying pieces, thats another story. Sure, I will always be looking for more original Viper guns and Soldier AK-47's, but I'm not going to leave them all weaponless in the meantime. And I have no problem supplying Rampage with a cheap black microphone (did he originally even come with one?), just because it looks better than the hole in his helmet. For these pieces, I'm not going to spend the money/time looking for an original, because it's just not important to me for my purposes. But to call me lazy and cheap, and to give me an elitist have/have not attitude is pretty much a load of crap. If that's how you feel about your own collection, you are welcome to it, I don't have an issue with it at all, and I won't disparage you about it either. But don't you dare lecture me, as if your collecting habits are morally/ethically superior to mine or anyone else's. Everyone does not have to collect the way you do.

I also understand, and to some degree, agree with the potential problems these pieces have to the market in general. Especially with buying them online. A lot of people have used this as an argument, that maybe the picture will show a slightly different color, or that you can't know the difference in the mic's until you get it in hand. This might be true, but in reality, you run that risk with EVERY purchase you make online/from eBay, so that should be kept in mind. Not just with highly repro'd items.

[RedClaw]

I can state from experience that if not for repro parts, i wouldnt be driving my 1981 delorean today. there were 6000 made, and only 600 of those were automatics. i have an automatic. (see pics here www.myspace.com/johnarmijo. THANK GOD FOR REPRO PARTS.

I appreciate the sentiment, but DMC went out of business in what, '86? The fact still remains, that DMC does not have the ability to just produce more parts for their owners whereas Hasbro does and they have retained the legal rights to their property, unlike DMC.

I'm restoring a 62 Austin Healy Sprite MK2, and I believe the same way, I won't use reproduction parts unless they come from the factory, usually I'm spending my time hunting new old stock, but in the end, I'm going to have a real car, instead of a Sprite/MG Midget (Spridget) Frankenstein.

I just believe the same is true with Joes.

[bluebikerboy1]

I really think that the car market may be the best analogy, so let's see if I can explain this using a car that everyone is familiar with, the 71 Cuda that was seen in the TV show Nash Bridges.

The body style of the Cuda was built from 1970 - 1974 I believe, but the 71 version was the only one that had the slots in the fender, so if we go with 10,000 cars built per year, then there are 40,000 cars that share the similar body style, but only 10,000 with that fender pattern. Then if you go for one of the higher end engines, either the 426 Hemi or the 440, then your numbers do down a lot. Then if you find out that there are only 50 cars or so that have that engine size, as well as being a convertible, you have 50 cars out of 40,000 that can go for approximately $100K.

So, let's say that you have one of these 50 cars, and somehow parts of your car get damaged, or say you find one stripped that you want to restore, are you going to refuse to use these parts? Almost every single collector is going to say no, on the simple reason that they are attempting to complete their prized part of their collection. Are these cars sold with these repro parts? Yes. Are they always identified as such? Not always. Do a lot of the owners usually care? Many of them are just happy to have the car they wanted. How about any metal patches that may have been installed to replace damage? Does that metal patch make the car less valuable, even though it is not an original piece of metal?

While the analogy is not exact, just because of the amount of product made between action figues and cars, the situations are similar. Who's to say in 15-20 years, collectors are going to realize that as long as the figure has what it should have per yojoe, Mark Bellomo's book, or any other piece of reference material, that it will be considered complete?

im going on a small rant on this one lol
im currently playing with a 66 mustang coupe. 289 engine. im new to the classic car world so bear with me here. i know this car is not neccessarily rare but its still a car i have always wanted. it was the ORIGINAL engine and an ORIGINAL green dot automatic mustang transmission. it does need some work done on it. some body work (a little bit of rust. not to bad though) and the interior wirring is all jacked up and needs to be replaced. also im going to hunt down an ORIGINAL a/c to install in it. now when i am done with this car it will be about 80% original. the exception is im installing power steering and power brakes and am getting rims and selling the hubcaps it comes with (there the original set so im figureing by selling these i might get enough to pay for the rims and maybe new tires). its getting new upholstry and a new paint job. now the point im making is not to brag (well maybe a little lol) but to state when and if i sell it im making sure the buyer knows what i replaced.
will this car be worth the 10k-15k+ that a fully restored mustang can get? maybe not. but i wouldnt want to be that buyer who drops 15k+ on a "fully restored" mustang to find out aftermarket parts are installed and he was never told. cause like it or not aftermarket parts (be it repod or whatever) deminish the value of the car. just like a figure.

[GI Trekker]

I appreciate the sentiment, but DMC went out of business in what, '86? The fact still remains, that DMC does not have the ability to just produce more parts for their owners whereas Hasbro does and they have retained the legal rights to their property, unlike DMC.

Hasbro has the legal rights to their property, and they have the ABILITY to produce new parts (assuming they still have the molds to them which is another whole subject entirely), but they're NOT and I can't imagine that Hasbro believes for one minute that there's any profit in it for them to produce a pack full of helmet mikes or something for what I am reasonably certain they largely regard as a mostly DEAD toy line.

If I had a figure that was missing a small piece like that, and someone offered me a repro that was indistinguishable from the original, TOLD me that it was a repro, and wasn't charging an arm and a leg (an apt phrase in the toy world, you have to admit) for it, would I take it? You betcha! Because it wouldn't be something that I would subsequently be trying to pass off as an original item, and I can't imagine that Hasbro's stock is going to drop through the floor because of it.

That doesn't mean that I don't recognize that there's a legal issue here. It doesn't mean that I'm going to start marketing repro parts myself even if I had that capability, which I don't. It doesn't mean that I'm going to become a marketer for repro parts. All it means is that I needed a helmet mike for somebody, and that I'm more concerned with whether the figure looks complete than how much he's "worth" based on some range of perceived monetary value that within the hobby is something that is mercurial at best.

Fortunately, at this time, except for a few Cobra-La Royal Guards, which didn't have their antennae things to begin with, nobody in my collection is missing any of those tiny pieces. Because I glued them into place at the outset.

Of course, I'm sure some believe that ruined their "value", as well...

[zombieguide]

I appreciate the sentiment, but DMC went out of business in what, '86? The fact still remains, that DMC does not have the ability to just produce more parts for their owners whereas Hasbro does and they have retained the legal rights to their property, unlike DMC.

I'm restoring a 62 Austin Healy Sprite MK2, and I believe the same way, I won't use reproduction parts unless they come from the factory, usually I'm spending my time hunting new old stock, but in the end, I'm going to have a real car, instead of a Sprite/MG Midget (Spridget) Frankenstein.

I just believe the same is true with Joes.

ok, so if you are like me in that this particular car is the car of your dreams, let me ask:

lets say you need a fuel pump and there ARE fuel pumps out there, but so uncommon that you cant find one. it may be possible to find one, but very well may take years, but until you do, that car isnt moving.

a company comes along that makes repros for dirt cheap, you can buy them online and have it tomorrow. are you gonna let your dream car sit in the garage for years and collect dust while you track down an original fuel pump, or are you gonna do what it takes to enjoy your dream car again?

my joe collection is my childhood dream come true. its a 2 car garage converted in a holding cell for my stuff, and i want it all to be in the best, most complete condition i can find. in 25 years ive never had the opportunity to pick up an affordable HM mic aside from when the mauler first came out, (and i make a very nice income). so i was more than happy to pick up a repro for a buck. that will stay there until an affordable, REAL one comes along, and if it doesnt, i can really care less. i would like a real one, but im not gonna kill myself or my bank account over it.

im curious how you will respond to the fuel pump analogy however.

[bluebikerboy1]

ok, so if you are like me in that this particular car is the car of your dreams, let me ask:

lets say you need a fuel pump and there ARE fuel pumps out there, but so uncommon that you cant find one. it may be possible to find one, but very well may take years, but until you do, that car isnt moving.

a company comes along that makes repros for dirt cheap, you can buy them online and have it tomorrow. are you gonna let your dream car sit in the garage for years and collect dust while you track down an original fuel pump, or are you gonna do what it takes to enjoy your dream car again?

my joe collection is my childhood dream come true. its a 2 car garage converted in a holding cell for my stuff, and i want it all to be in the best, most complete condition i can find. in 25 years ive never had the opportunity to pick up an affordable HM mic aside from when the mauler first came out, (and i make a very nice income). so i was more than happy to pick up a repro for a buck. that will stay there until an affordable, REAL one comes along, and if it doesnt, i can really care less. i would like a real one, but im not gonna kill myself or my bank account over it.

im curious how you will respond to the fuel pump analogy however.

me? ill hunt down the original fuel pump. i had to get a new plug cause the one on it was old. did i get a repo part? no. i hunted a new one still in baggie (original plug) and bought it. part of the thrill is the hunt.

[Flophouse]

[quote=zombieguide]I can state from experience that if not for repro parts, i wouldnt be driving my 1981 delorean today.quote]


So that's why you have a Flux Capacitor avatar over on JoeCustoms.com!

All you guys with Deloreans, Austins, and Mustangs can quit your chest beating and pony up and get a REAL man's car like me......an '83 Toyota Tercel wagon. Hey, when I go out cruising, ladies take notice...... .........no wait,


Now about this whole "to repro or not to repro" thing. I paid $160 for my HM w/mic several years ago and since this repro part has hit the market I think it will become much harder to get a buyer to trust me that it's genuine should I ever sell it. Repro parts will always lower values on the hard to find pieces. Some will view this as a good thing, others a bad thing. I guess since I paid top dollar for all my rare items I would view it as a bad thing. A lot of arguements made here center around the legality of selling repro parts and less about how these repros lower the value of original parts. Well here's a thought to tickle your mind pickle. What if all us high paying collectors found out Hasbro was now opening up an online replacement parts website. Collectors could buy HM mics, Hardtop accessories, Night Force accessories, double handled bazookas, etc, etc. These parts are now legit, made from original molds and exact colors. Yay! Now everyone can complete any and all figures from their collections for a few dollars each. Boo! Now ever stupid piece I paid a fortune for is now worthless.

So regardless of whether the repros are made my Hasbro or some other person, prices across the board sink. Again, Yay! for some, Boo! for others.


Now, I will admit I buy repro decals. This is a whole other arguement I know. But for those who like the old car analogy, you have to admit that you would paint your original car with new paint. You would pick an exact original color scheme, but you would paint it to look beautiful again. The same can be said for new exact decals.