There is a legitimate variation made in China that is NOT A FAKE !Originally Posted by just_joes_by_mike
http://yojoe.com/international/china...rmshadow.shtml
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04-11-2009 #21Member
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Last edited by TYPE*S*TOYS; 04-11-2009 at 11:25 PM.
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04-11-2009 #22Member
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Thanks for the example!! I did not realize this. Originally Posted by TYPE*S*TOYS
But, I still believe these auctions to be fakes. If you look at the arm rivets they are clearly silver and jut way out of the arm. In the pic you provided, the rivets do appear to be brass colored like the ones produced for the us. Also the facial paint is a different color. This is my judgement based on pics in the auction and now the link you provided. Also as stated by other members of YoJoe on the thread provided.Current Ebay listings: http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/just_j...Q_fromZQQ_mdoZ
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04-13-2009 #23Member
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I'm erring on the side of Bootleg with these. Considering the unreal quantity and the fact that the seller has yet to show any packaging, US or otherwise, I suspect the seller is withholding information. Why can't he at least provide pictures of the damaged packaging, if it exists? If these are licensed Chinese SS figs, then the auctions are still fraudulent as the seller lies about their origin.
I've learned from the Transformers bootlegs of '84/'85 figures, which are made starting by reverse engineering authentic figures, it's that bootlegs are never 100% identical and the packaging has the most imperfections. These characteristics are apparent here, and I'd rather be safe then spend good money only to discover SS is a cheaper reissue or a bootleg. I'm sure many buyers who have been grifted by this seller would agree.
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04-13-2009 #24Member
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I have some information that might be helpful in identifying the new reproduction Storm Shadows.
Last year (2008), I bought some of the reproduction carded Storm Shadows (on reproduction Chinese cardbacks).
Recently (2009), I bought some of the reproduction loose Storm Shadows that have appeared on eBay (after I realized that they were indeed reproductions)
Both the 2008 and 2009 reproductions are identical... except for the cobra symbol... which is more well defined in the second run.
I have taken some pictures to show comparisons with the original 1984 release.
In all the pictures (except where noted), the original Storm Shadow (and SS pieces) are on the left... The reproduction Storm Shadow stuff is on the right.
I hope these help:
US/Canada/EU China 2008 China 2009 --figures and accessories
http://i62.servimg.com/u/f62/11/22/52/69/sm_ss_10.jpg
US/Canada/EU China 2008 China 2009 --figures
http://i62.servimg.com/u/f62/11/22/52/69/sm_ss_22.jpg
US/Canada/EU China 08/09 --imprint, rivets, and leg plastic indent (where removed from sprue)
http://i62.servimg.com/u/f62/11/22/52/69/sm_ss_12.jpg
US/Canada/EU early and late China 08/09 --arms flesh tint, rivets, and shoulder attachment piece
http://i62.servimg.com/u/f62/11/22/52/69/sm_ss_13.jpg
US/Canada/EU China 08/09 --inside torsos
http://i62.servimg.com/u/f62/11/22/52/69/sm_ss_14.jpg
US/Canad/EU China 08/09 --heads
http://i62.servimg.com/u/f62/11/22/52/69/sm_ss_15.jpg
US/Canada/EU China 2008 China 2009 --cobra symbols
http://i62.servimg.com/u/f62/11/22/52/69/sm_ss_23.jpg
US/Canad/EU China 08/09 --accessories
http://i62.servimg.com/u/f62/11/22/52/69/sm_ss_17.jpg
US/Canad/EU China 08/09 --quiver
http://i62.servimg.com/u/f62/11/22/52/69/sm_ss_18.jpg
US/Canad/EU China 08/09 --nunchucks
http://i62.servimg.com/u/f62/11/22/52/69/sm_ss_19.jpg
China 1990's China 08/09 --cardbacks front
http://i62.servimg.com/u/f62/11/22/52/69/sm_ss_20.jpg
China 1990's China 08/09 --cardbacks back
http://i62.servimg.com/u/f62/11/22/52/69/sm_ss_24.jpg
Some carded Storm Shadows - all made in Hong Kong
http://i62.servimg.com/u/f62/11/22/52/69/sm_som10.jpgLast edited by airedevon; 04-13-2009 at 03:26 PM.
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04-13-2009 #25Member
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Originally Posted by airedevon
Really great information. I think it helps a lot.
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04-13-2009 #26Member
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Wow!!!
Aire, that has got to be, the, by far, most comprehensive crushing blow to the bootleg industry when trying to push those Storm Shadows off as real. If you get to see the detail of the figures and compare to a known legit item as you have done, then there is no comparison. The '08 and '09 Storm Shadows are truly fake. None of them has the dots under the chin of the snake.
Now to play devils advocate for a second, I glanced at the Cobra Trooper auction linked on Page 1 of this thread and while it said it was an 82/83 Cobra Trooper, and I can easily tell it isn't a REAL one, there is a gray legal line that could be drawn. The guy could have been trying to say it is a duplication of the 82/83 Cobra Trooper and even though he didn't clearly state that, he might get away with it in court. That's what sucks about this. People taking advantage of gullible people who don't know any different. If I hadn't started re-collecting Joes 2 years ago, I never would have known the difference, but my alarms would have gone off if I had looked at the price of other Cobra Troopers on ebay and seen the difference. The Cobra Trooper in the auction has too much of the circle joint on the shoulder showing and the black on the boots is too much of a matte finish compared to the slightly shiny black on a real Cobra Trooper. It seems too thick too. But, again, I wouldn't have known had I not seen a real trooper recently. The face too is a dead give-away.
Last, I actually like the fakes to the point we can army build with them. If these dudes just posted that they were customs or something like that, then collectors would't be up in arms about it and they may actually embrace the fakes as something cool to add to their collections. I bought a fake Star Wars Episode 2 Clone Trooper in 2002 (you know the marching ones and the ones in firing poses) on purpose because I thought it was so cool! I was told they were fake (you can easily tell), but I liked it enough that I wanted to support the ingenuity of the deal and I wanted more army builders in a time you just couldn't get them. Guess what? We can't get 82/83 Cobra Troopers as army builders. How can we do that? The fakes. But if they aren't sold as such, I don't want to bid or buy simply on principle. Hasbro may have an issue with it if the figures are sold as repros, but I don't think they can truly stop it now that there are so many people able to have custom/repro stuff made. Star Wars vintage repro weapons are abundant. I have seen 2 or 3 websites selling repro Joe stuff. Then there is Marauder who sells ORIGINAL kick *** weapons and gear for Joes. A guy like that is a god-send to the collecting community as well as Hasbro. He isn't stepping on toes because he doesn't make repros, and he is promoting displaying your Joes in a whole new light as well as customizing, which causes all of us to do what???? BUY MORE JOES.
Sell the fakes branded as such and this will all go away.
I wonder who actually had them made? Someone in the US? Or overseas? The world may never know.
Thanks for listening guys and gals.
May your collections be as complete as you want them to be. And Aire, you kicked some major butt here. Good on ya! Education is key. (BTW, we need a comprehensive Joe collector guide that covers international stuff and actually has GOOD pictures, anyone know one?)
Drew
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04-13-2009 #27Member
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Nice work AireDevon!! Thanks for the support on this topic and bringing to light a very serious subject.
I could agree that if some collectors wanted to buy these SS and CT as army builders, I would not have a problem with it. As long as by doing so it is not destroying the market of the real deal Hasbro stuff. What I would hope is eliminated, is the secondary buyer trying to buy these in mass, like the viper pilots and selling them as original. If you noticed one of the auctions recently for the SS, the seller actually leaves the messages in the auction. One potential buyer wants to know if he can get a better price on thousands of SS figures. This guy is not army building!! He thinks they are real or thinks he can sell them as real, this is disturbing to me!!
Buyers beware from now on, or insist on extra pics to prove identity of these figs.Current Ebay listings: http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/just_j...Q_fromZQQ_mdoZ
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04-15-2009 #28Member
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I got one of these troopers. Somebody emailed me saying it was a fake. (guess it was one of you guys.)
got to say except for the elbows its pretty much the same.
also the gun it came with was jet black. little different than most of the others I have.
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04-15-2009 #29Member
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Yeah they are pretty close. I actually got swindled on a deal involving them.
Didn't realize it was a scam until I came here and now if I see it I like to report on it. I feel like if airedevon gave me a junior badge I could be a deputy working for him investigating the knock offs
haha
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04-16-2009 #30Member
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Latest scam artist in California selling troopers userid 69corvette83
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