WOW this is getting really old! AFA related.

[Da_Last_2_Walk]

I am trying hard to word this carefully, and this is a sincere question.

but are you getting a better product because of the afa grade?
when i started collecting figures in 00-01, paint rub and light scares or discoloration made the figure c-7 (acording to my lees guide), but it would seem to me (i saw a blue snaggletooth auction about 1 month ago) that a figure thusly worn was an afa grade 85 (c 8.5).
perhaps i do not understand the grading curve, but to me at least it seemed to generate a little confusion and hesitation to purchase.

Yes, I consider an AFA 85 Storm Shadow to be a better product than a C 8.5 MOC Storm Shadow.

I'm sure that the Lees Guide and AFA use different criteria for their grading scales.

AFA explains their grading scales in full detail. What exactly are you confused about?

[Da_Last_2_Walk]

This does bring up a good point. I remember a few years ago there was a youtube video of a guy opening up a 7.5 (I think) Metal Head and getting it re-graded. And it came back as a 8.0! So I have very little faith in AFA stuff. I have also seen someone shell out over $1,000 for an AFA graded Storm Shadow, and about 3 months later the "O-ring" broke inside the pack! I thought that was ironic!

Ahh yes, a famous AFA "horror story". As I said before, people tend to remember a negative statement about AFA, but never remember the positive statements.

Does AFA make mistakes.....sure they do. I doubt that any other service you use is always 100% perfect, and have never made a mistake. (I bet you always get everything exactly as you ordered in a drive-through)

There are people who have bought an AFA item, and have opened the case to "clean-up" the figure, and have resubmitted the figure and received a higher grade.....makes sense to me.

Anyhoo, I am really glad I started this thread. Someone just contacted me with a bunch of MOC figures he has for sale. NOT AFA graded, in great condition and NOT ONE over $35.00!!!!

Congrats on your score!

Will you be posting them in a for sale thread?

[Da_Last_2_Walk]

I agree with the majority in this thread. To pay more money, simply for someone's opinion does seem a bit foolish. Personally, it makes more sense for me to inspcet an item myself to determine its condition. I've tried, but I'll never understand anyone wanting to pay extra money for an item simply because someone else says it's in great condition. Do such a person value their own opinion less than some stranger's?

I consider somebody criticizing the way another person collects, to be foolish.

How are you getting the items to personally inspect? I assume you are buying them from a sellers description. When I buy AFA 85s, there is never a question of their condition. When I buy MOC, I get figures that are not in the same condition as the seller claimed. I would buy an AFA graded item over a seller's description or picture any day.

That being said, I don't fault the guys who get the stuff graded with the intent of selling it. They know there are people out there who will pay more than an item is worth, simply because AFA has layed their holy hands on the item. What baffles me besides the people who buy this AFA stuff, is the people who send items from their own personal collection to get graded with no intent on ever selling the item. Paying money, just to have someone else tell you that it's in good condition....foolish.

I send my items to AFA to receive a grade and to protect them.

Again, criticizing the way another person collects, because you don't understand why.....foolish.

[Da_Last_2_Walk]

Something is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. That being said, when you buy an afa graded item, you know what you are getting. You know the seller couldn't have tampered with it or been less then exact in its description. Buying things on ebay, you are at the mercy of that description and whatever picture they put in the auction.

Agreed.

As far as people being really down on the AFA, I think the whole idea of it is to have a standard people can trust. Personally, I'd feel better buying something graded by a third party like that, because they have no vested interest in that particular item. Like I mentioned above, that way I know someone hasn't tampered with it, especially when resealing seems to happen somewhat regularly.

Agreed.

Now some people might not care if something is resealed, and that's fine. It just comes down to what you want to go after. I am not into joes to make money, but it would be nice to know that if I was forced to sell items, I could get my money back if not a little more then I paid

Agreed.

[kurthalsey]

Final Frontier had a Zartan, MIB, not sealed. They wanted like 400 some bucks for it. Now AFA grades unsealed stuff, so Final Frontier sends it in, it grades an 80 Qualified, and now it is 995 bucks.

That is what is sort of silly to me.

[Volleydan]

Final Frontier had a Zartan, MIB, not sealed. They wanted like 400 some bucks for it. Now AFA grades unsealed stuff, so Final Frontier sends it in, it grades an 80 Qualified, and now it is 995 bucks.

That is what is sort of silly to me.

We have a winner! It's the SAME TOY, but now the price is more than doubled???? That's the part that isn't founded in any sort of economic reality....and the "bubble" that will one day break.

Another example of people using AFA grading as a reason to jack prices is when they say "only one in existence!" Well, sure it is, until someone else sends one in for grading . It's especially funny when they make the claim on something like "AFA 85 Topside". An AFA graded toy has no greater rarity than an ungraded one of the same condition....it's just a matter of whose hands the item has been through and whether or not it's received a "blessing". Ever stop to think that the only reason that it's the only one is because most people haven't bothered to send a $20 figure to AFA and pay $40 to have it graded?

One day, the buyers who are willing to pay this level of premium for a "guarantee of condition" will dry up and prices for AFA items will come down. Then, one of two things will happen....either those who don't currently collect AFA graded items will start getting in on it (since the 'premium' is closer to what they're willing to pay) or sellers will stop having items graded because they aren't getting the ROI that they want for the items.

[Da_Last_2_Walk]

I agree, but since they are generally paid by the owner of the item, does that bias the item high? obviously the best way to buy an item would be to actually see it, but that's not always possible. but if i want to depend on a third party grading system, then a c-7 should be a c-7, regardless of who looks at it.

If that was the case, you would never see AFA 50s, 60s & 70s, all you would see is AFA 90s.

I agree that a figure(that has not been "cleaned-up) should consistently receive the same grade regardless of the grader.

I remember before AFA getting mad at sellers who would sell stuff as c-9.5 that had obviously been repaired. I got a grunt early on that had swivel arms, but a straight arm crotch- I think from brians toys, I know they sold me a shortfuse with broken thumbs once too as a c-7.5 (i bought it for the hands and was really ticked).

If that is true, then that is good that AFA wanted other sellers to be honest.

I am not bashing AFA, I guess I am just wondering if you guys that do buy AFA (not mint stuff that's a no brainer grade) find their grading dead on, or questionable, or do you just use it as a tool to sell your items (no shame in that i suppose).

I understand that there is a range for each grade. For example, there is a low end AFA 85 and a high end AFA 85. I find that the AFA grades I receive are dead on. I sell my AFA Joes when I upgrade, and I appreciate the fact that I can command a higher price for my AFA graded item.

I can see the benefits as a seller, but unless the system was dead on, I would still prefer to see the item, instead of depending on the AFA grade to tell what it's worth.

I don't know of any sellers that send their items to "possible" buyers, so the buyers can inspect the items. This is why I trust buying an AFA 85 figure over some seller claiming "This figure is in cash fresh condition.

and as far as resealing items- that drives me nuts. I have seen carded items for sale at local flea markets that i know are fake carded figures (having 6-7 MOC vinyl caped jawas for instance), or resealed (chrome viper being replaced in the 5 pack comes to mind). I normally open the items i buy, but I still want legitimate items.

AFA does not grade resealed items. So you don't have to gamble with an AFA item being tampered with. However, you do take a gamble, when a MOC seller claims the item has not been resealed.

[hotdog]

Yes, I consider an AFA 85 Storm Shadow to be a better product than a C 8.5 MOC Storm Shadow.

I'm sure that the Lees Guide and AFA use different criteria for their grading scales.

AFA explains their grading scales in full detail. What exactly are you confused about?

the grading scale. if they have their own criteria, i guess it's confusing because it looks (the grade) just like what we collectors have used all along, but they use it with different criteria.
but i do seem to see a niche for it. if i want something pristene mint- go with an afa graded item so there is no question. but if we are talking less then mint- or near mint, then there may be some discrepency due to opinions being involved? and regardless of AFA or not i should get my hands on it first (if it's not mint)?
I do have a fair amount of vintage carded/boxed SW and TF stuff. but nothing AFA. normally i open my boxed items up- I wasted a lot of money on a MIB soundwave and zartan for my boys Xmas one year. he loved them, but destroyed them both within a couple months.

[hotdog]

I don't know of any sellers that send their items to "possible" buyers, so the buyers can inspect the items. This is why I trust buying an AFA 85 figure over some seller claiming "This figure is in cash fresh condition

right, and the fact that carded figures are harder to come by at the places I frequent is why i asked the question. my practice now is to not buy a collectors piece unless i can inspect it. most of us can tell a fake or reseal. i just have some reservations about trusting someone else to make that call for me, hense the post.

[Da_Last_2_Walk]

At one point in its early days, AFA was said to have common ownership with one of the major online toy retailers. They registered the company through someone's brother in law to cover their tracks, but word got out.

To me, that's a far worse potential indictment of their credibility than simple grading inconsistencies.....their site indicates that AFA employees are not allowed to have items graded, but I guess that rule doesn't apply to its owners .

Didn't you ever wonder why a certain online toy store suddenly started selling so much high-grade AFA stuff about five years ago? That one store alone made AFA.

In the beginning Tom Derby may have owned AFA and Cloud City..... Currently, Brains Toys owns Cloud City.....

You're telling me that because this happened 5 years ago, if I send an item to AFA today, it's not going to get a credible grade?

The AFA collectors helped make AFA what it is today. Without us, AFA would have closed their doors.